Mars Exploration Rovers Update - May 6, 2004



You are an obvious kook, and beyond reasoning with in any intelligent fashion.
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Since I have about 1,000 trilobites in my collection, you are right. I don't see any in the picture. The biggest problem you have with your "trilobite" is that the rock this alleged fossil is "deposited" ion consists mainly of pyroxene with some plagioclase. In fact, it is a very rare meteorite called a sherghottite. It did not form in a sedimentary environment. So, if it is a trilobite, it was swimming in 2,000 degree magma before it died. Sorry, even earthbound trilobites never accomplished that feat.
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID 040416-041840-4139r
You can go back to sleep now.
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Since NASA doesn't have the relative intensity data for the IR filters and since they have not SHARED the spectrographic data I find their announcements HIGHLY suspect at best. And George you are assuming the whole rock is uniform ...bad assumption in fact many of their explanations are highly suspect to me ..... I havent seen any of your trilobites george i dont belvie you and if you posted pics of them i wouldnt beleive you either......as you point out Pictures cant be trusted. Even from NASA and they have for more crediblity then you will......i might be giving them ( NASA) a bit more credit then i should and george you cant prove Sir Charles Shults wrong. and insults are not technical discourse but since i have no claims to being anything other than observer i can say i want.......BITE ME
so here is the link for those of you that would like to see what this argument is about..... take a look http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsx.htm
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Apparently you were asleep when they posted this:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a/08-CS-02-Compare-B079R1_br.jpg

There is no reason not to assume that the entire rock is uniform. Having said that, there is no reason to believe that any other part of the rock isn't igneous. Pyroxene and plagioclase form under much higher temperatures than anyone can possibly expect a trilobite to survive long enough to die and become a fossil. Since you are not a scientist, nor specialize in geology, nineralogy, nor paleontology, it comes as no surprise to anyone that you suspect anything you don't understand.

I haven't published anything on trilobites. I do, however, have a modest trilobite collection. But it doesn't take a trilobite expert to prove you wrong.

Then what is the point in having this conversation, dork? If you want to prove to me that you are an idiot, you afre doing a fine job of it.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a/08-CS-02-Compare-B079R1_br.jpg
I already have. Several times.
and insults are not

Do you always try to prove someone else is untechnical by spewing insults?

And here is a link to the explanation that proves that page totally incorrect:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a/08-CS-02-Compare-B079R1_br.jpg
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and
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a/08-CS-02 - Compare-B079R1_br.jpg
said
than
become
nineralogy,
anything
prove
crediblity
then i

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a/08-CS-02 - Compare-B079R1_br.jpg
than
http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsx.htm
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That page is still wrong, and insulting to scientists who actually know what we are talking about. It will be wrong no matter how many times you post it.
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well it doesnt matter who is right or wrong the truth will come out......it always does.....and to those that are blind will not even know it ....and that is sad.....well i took a looked at the page today again and saw this http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/cma32/Uni_Photos/Arran_field_trip_1/Trilobite%20 fossil%20(Small).jpg very cool indeed now i know that george will have something to say about it as he cant keep still about anything ......but on this other page is the smalles one i have seen yet of a trilobite its a direct link to it
http://www.nctimes.net/~tyra-rex/PinheadT.jpg also here is of something of note the tiny Urchin never seen one so small so i guess MARS might have them that small.......as well as the trilobites well that makes since... since alot of what we see from the rovers or did till they wnet hush hush......was microscopic on these little guys...
enjoy .....
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Gee, what do you want, a medal? Are you going to tell me that you found that one on Mars as well? I only have one more question for you? Did the Martians loan you that pen, or did you take it with you on your trip?

Yes, I enjoy your rants. It helps rejuvinate my faith in my own education. It is a shame you never received one. You should sue your teachers for dereliction of duty, and ask for your money back.
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that
Martians
well no , and yes , of course not you dolt.........sheeeeeeeeeeesh you are crazy....to think that .
I think i answered your questions a s good as i can.
ok here it is again for you Georgy http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/cma32/Uni_Photos/Arran_field_trip_1/Trilobite%20 fossil%20(Small).jpg

education. It

dereliction
............thanks for holding up the model i have in my head of you.............so far you have done everything i thought you would.........i was right a sad pitiful man behind the keyboard.

http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsx.htm some think its not.......but explain how it is eroding and falling apart georgy?
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And this picture has what, exactly to do with the discussion at hand?

And this has what, exactly to do with the discussion at hand? Do you want me to post pictures of my trilobites, or what? Are we going to have a trilobite spew?
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me to

spew?
why are you being so dam stubborn ? also too you know that the Rock is sedimentary........I would like your input on that rock you being a geologist and all........... thought you would know......I haven't come across any ingenious rocks that pieces fall off or crumble apart to dam easily......of course living out I the desert you tend to know ........this. was wondering what your thoughts were...........( cant wait to hear this one. not holding breath) see the picture at http://www.xenotechresearch.com/marsx.htm
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No, I don't know that at all. To suggest that Mars has the not only similar animals, but specific classes of animals in common with the earth is so far-fetched that no geologist in his/her right mind would even suggest it.

Read above - and below.

Way wrong answer. If I was teaching you mineralogy, you would have just flunked, big time. The rock has the exact same spectrographic signature as a shergotty meteorite. If you were to sit them side by side, and examine the mineralogy in detail, I'd wager that you'd have a very hard time telling them apart.

Many igneous rocks fall apart quite easily after they weather for a time, in fact, as do many meteorites. You have to remember that this rock is likely very old, and has been weathering on the Martian surface for eons. It didn't form yesterday. The fact is that many plagioclase-bearing rocks do disintegrate rather easily. If water was present at some time, the pyroxene would also weather readily. In fact, in the presence of water, some pyroxenes are altered chemically to form hornblende (which wasn't seen in the spectrograph - it's presence would have been a strong indicator for the presence of water at the time, or some time after the rock was formed). The fact that the pyroxene is present in the rock , and not hornblende indicates that it likely hasn't been chemically altered by the presence of water. Other pyroxenes weather to form smectite clay. Smectite wasn't seen either. Given that spalling and fraturing is evident on the rock surface, I'd wager that frost-wedging is evident as a modifier of the rock surface, as well as abrasion from the Martian wind. If you'll note in the photograph, there is at least one chunk of the rock just below your"trilobite". Smaller particles likely were sandblasted away in the Martian wind, or otherwise turned to dust.

What makes you think I live in a desert? I look out my window and see a forest of pin oaks and maples.

You see what you want to see. Take a rorschach test sometime. You see a trilobite. I see spalling, fractures, fracture fluting, pits, and grooves in the rock. I have chipped and split tons of rock in my 20 years as a geologist, and as a result produced fluting exactly like what you are seeing on that rock, and done it with many types of rock (from mafic rock to granite to metamorphic rock to limestone to chert, and even some thick, hard shales). I have also seen fluting of this nature on rock that has been frost-wedged. To suggest, based on an out of focus, poorly lit photograph, that this weathered surface (and it is a weathered surface) represents a specific class of aquatic earth animal is to stretch credibility beyond all reason. Occam's razor says "ll things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one". What is the easier explanation?
A) That a trilobite somehow was transported to a very arid planet from the earth, or let's say, from trilobite heaven, and miraculously survived the trip, and even more miraculously survived a fiery baptism in a lava flow, later died, was somehow not consumed by the fiery lava flow, and was preserved within it, to be discovered at a later time by MER-B.
B) That microscopic life erupted on Mars when it was wetter, and just by happenstance evolved into the exact same class of animal that is found as a fossil right here on earth (when there is no evidence of the other life that would be associated with it - it has to gather sustenence somehow, since trilonites are believed to have been scavangers), and somehow managed to preserve itself inside a meteorite that was likely formed oriiginally in a fiery igneous eruption or intrusion and later blasted nearly into orbit by an asteroid or meteor impact, where it came down in the location where it sits today. Even if you consider that the rock might be sedimentary, which is certainly out of the question, and even if you consider that it could have been formed in a shallow sea (which would be necessary in order for this rock to be sedimentary and contain any fossils at all except microscopic bacteria-like life forms, which could exist in igneous rock) you still have to be able to explain the rest of the scenario.
C) That the markings are an artifact of the weathering process on Mars acting on a pyroxene and plagioclase-rich rock that is susceptible to fracturing, spalling, pitting, fluting, and frost-wedging in a bitterly cold Mars environment.
Now, I've done your homework. Be sure to give me the credit for it.
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not.......but
want
trilobite
trilobite
similar
a
the
them
in
likely very

form
disintegrate
altered
it's
the
is
been
form
fraturing
a
If
just
the
forest
Erm georgy i said i lived out in the desert....sheeesh ya need glasses

in
geologist,
rock,
metamorphic
also seen

based on

it is a

to
being
easier
the
trip,
died,
it, to

a
that
fiery
asteroid
Even
of
sedimentary
forms,
the rest

acting
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My mistake. I'll make a note of it, and the fact that you took no issue with the rest of the post. So I assume that you finally got it straightened out in your head that that picture is not of a trilobite on Mars.

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god i had to get rid of all the *other crap* you say *snip*

with
out in

well georgy i think maybe that trilobite on Mars is a TRILOBITE that is ON MARS. if you think for a sec or if ya can think look at this....for a sec.
Both planets were formed at the same time and from the same materials. It is probably safe to assume that they were very similar even in their atmospheres, but since Mars has such weak gravity, its atmosphere literally "blew away" into space over time. It is known that solar wind (a stream of energetic particles from the Sun) is constantly wearing away the Earth's atmosphere. Also, Mars has a very small core, and its volcanoes stopped erupting long ago. On Earth, we know that volcanoes help to replace atmospheric gases all the time. Mars is unable to do this. here is a link you can look at georgy http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~soper/Mars/atmosphere.html there are still many organisms that can survive near vacuum, lots of salt, and extremes of temperature. And in the case of Mars, those organisms would have had nearly half a billion years to evolve protective mechanisms that would help them to survive. We could expect that we might still find bacteria, perhaps some simple plants below the soil, and maybe even small arthropods or worms that could take those conditions. And there are also bacteria that live inside rock, digesting petroleum and iron. Also, bacteria can remain trapped in salt crystals for millions of years and still be revived successfully. So samples of Martian brine crystals can easily hold living bacteria that we can release and study. (NASA has been taken what is found in mono lake as a very harsh inviorment for aything to live in and thinks maybe that life could be elsewherethen on earth)
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But not trilobites. They lived in the seas of the earth hundreds of millions of years ago. The fact that they lived in the sea is just one line of evidence in a mountain of evidence that earth had a substantial atmosphere at that time. Most, if not all trilobites lived in warm seas that varied little in temperature over a long period of time. That fact may be an explanation for their eventual demise. If they were warm-water adapted, and it appears that they were, then drastic changes in water temperature would have likely killed then off. They happened to have gone extinct during the Permian "great dying", when most of the earth's organisms were wiped out. Needless to say, whatever you want to ascribe to explain this event, the climatic effects were obviously dramatic, and had a profound effect on the earth's ecosystems, including its oceans.

That is a contentious debate. Geologists found bateria in gypsum deposits in Indiana that they claimed to have revived. Others looked at the data and determined that their de-contamination proecedures where inadequate to prove that the bacteria that they grew did not come from lab contamination. The authors despute this claim. Until it can be recreated by others with satisfactory results, it will remain desputed territory.

The problems with all of this are many. First of all, trilobites don't appear on earth until the earliest Cambrium, after the earth had already existed for about 4 billion years. And they evolved on earth in near "ideal" conditions. And do note that they are now exinct. Whatever conditions that existed at that time to have allowed them to evolve and flourish in the Paleozoic may not exist anymore, or at least went lacking for a long enough time for them to have disappeared altogether. Even if ideal conditions returned at a later time, do note that none have "re-evolved".
Mars, however, likely never had such ideal conditions, or if it had, it didn't have them for a long enough period of time for these complex animals to have evolved. Mars hasn't had a sustainable atmosphere for billions of years. When it went dead, tectonically speaking, the atmosphere lost it ability to be replenished, so that today, the atmosphere at the Martian surface is something like the barometric pressure of the earth's atmosphere at about 20 - 30 miles up. It is unlikely that the atmospheric pressure was high enough to have sustained free flowing water for a long enough period of time to have allowed free-flowing water to pool long enough for creatures as advanced as trilobites to evolve. Hence, it is unlikely that there was ever enough water for a long enough period of time for creatures such as trilobites to have evolved. The fact that it took billions of years under earth conditions for these creatures to evolve says volumes in opposition to your apparent claim that these creatures "co-evolved" on another planet, under much less than ideal conditions, and in a fraction of the time. And I do note that you haven't provided for a mechanism to explain how apparently identical creatures could evolved under such different conditions and in such varying rates of time. The fact that you interpret weathering features on a igneous meteorite found on Mars by a robot explorer as evidence of the existence of trilobites having once existed there only proves the anthropometric view in which you see and interpret the world around you.
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*snip* *clip* *cut* whatever...
the shape of a trilobite in a martian organism does not say anything about its temp needs it only means that it lived in a simular manner.
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So you think a trilobite is something separate from the organism itself, do you?
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And who said anything about its shape in reference to its temperature needs?
I'll add that even if it was a cold water trilobite, if such a thing ever existed, it wouldn't exist on Mars. Are you trying to become the internet kook of the month, or what?
http://plonk.com/
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georgy .........enough of you kooks out there now ........don't need me .......LOL
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