action: restore talent

I agree and it addresses George Gassaway's exclusionary post (his only suggestion).

There should be a PROCESS of review and forgiveness since the PERSONALITIES have proven even when promised, forgiveness never actually happens.

There needs to be obvious evidence of change to invite the non-ejected talent back. If you left voluntarily for cause you will need to be CONVINCED to come back.

1. Name change

1. Resignation, expulsion, of members who have been party to "frauds" and the standard of proof is a "blue ribbon commission" not a court of law or a criminal conviction. This way we do not have to ruin lives to repair a silly little club.

Jerry

IZ,

OK, this whole thing is the result that you are a propaganda minister. I am tiered of bad propaganda at a time of HPR resurgance. This is a time to have good tidings, not this s*it.

Now that hobbyists are comming out to launch sites in droves, Vendors are selling kits in droves,

Motor manufactures seem to be selling as much as they can make, old time rocket motor manufactures seem to be selling again, even when they are not part of the machine.

Why the ba-geezza do we need a Propaganda minister telling us all kinds of stuff, stuff from a leader that does not even care about HPR as we know it.

Go away until you can interact without this sanctimonious agenda please.

Iz blathered:

Nonsense. There are plenty of talented, knowledgeable people in TRA.

So the ones who went away were unwanted and unneeded? Then why was the BOD meeting I attended at LDRS-Lucerne largely about solving the hemmoraging membership problems?

Jerry

- iz

Al Max wrote:

off topic naysaying

oh? you have enough have you? met your quota did you?

or are you saying that ex-members (like people who refuse to join) have no talent?

or don't their particular talents matter?

- iz

RayDunak> Iz blathered:

I guess ours don't.

-dave w (formerly TRA 08575)

TRA has no shortage of talented people, as you implied. Period.

answer the question, Ray

do you think the loss of talent the expatriated people (and prospective members who rejected the opportunity to join) impacts negatively on the organization or not?

to the extent that that is of sufficient concern to remedy it?

- iz

RayDunak> Iz wrote:

Iz asked:

No, I do not. There is sufficient talent available in those who support TRA that I see no need or desire to seek out those who want to tear apart TRA for their own agendas.

what about those who had/have legimate issues with TRA misconduct, sought to improve the condition, and were expelled as a defensive measure by a corrupt board? They cannot be written off as wanting "to tear apart TRA for their own agendas"!

earnest people who sincerely want what is best for the TRA membership?

and what of prospective members that are repelled by the corruption, and would sincerely like to see TRA correct its course?

are you saying their talent (judgement and courage) is not a loss to TRA?

they're only "agenda" as you call it is improving the organization

- iz

RayDunak> Iz asked:

Without getting into specific cases (and speaking only for myself), I think it's very possible for a person who has an issue (legitimate or not) to be so single-minded and destructive about as to be a detriment to the organization. As a cure, they become worse than the disease.

First off, I'd inform any such prospective members that I strongly disagree with your charges of "corruption" and suggest they find a better source of information about the club.

Secondly, if they still felt as you do that there is such a degree of "corruption" in the organization, then maybe this isn't the place for them.

Yes. How many times do I have to say it? Any talents (knowledge, skill, experience, etc) must be weighed against the negatives (attitude, divisiveness, unrealistic expectations or goals, etc).

theoretically yes, a bipolar individual would certainly be.

I agree that they should not take my word for it. They can follow Bob Kaplows posts to "JC, TRA and the future of rocketry" and see the evidence for themselves.

or ask Bob K., Jerry, or John C. how they came to leave TRA, and hear their stories first hand!

no, not "maybe"

even when the [negative] "attitude" and "divisiveness" has just cause? like because corruption actually exists and is tolerated?

"unrealistic expectations or goals", because they demand a honest, open and effective organization?

Do you really mean a more accurate one or a more controlled propogandized one?

I clearly claim you mean the latter.

In a bipolar world, it would be an improvement.

But there is a third option. Kill the corruption and act as a fiduciary for a freakin change.

Not Bipolar Jerry

Once a ruler becomes religious, it [becomes] impossible for you to debate with him. Once someone rules in the name of religion, your lives become hell. -- Colonel Moammar Qaddafi, at the General People's Congress in Tripoli in October, 1989

One of my favorite episodes of The X-Files. "Deny, Inveigle and Obfuscate"

THERE ARE NO RULES IN CALVINBALL! -- Calvin

With all due respect to those individuals, their "stories" are rather one-sided.

Everyone with that kind of attitude always thinks they have "just cause".

Oh, like the honesty, openness and effectiveness of ARSA? ;)