Adjusting Aerotech delays


These were WAY outside the 2s window. I211M (10) that ejected at 3. I161-S (6) that ejected between 1-2 sec. I161S that ejected at 2. H123S (6) that ejected at 2. All but the first resulted in rockets that were essentially destroyed. One resulted in the loss of my 35mm camera payload as well.
I've had ZERO of these malfunctions in other 38mm propellant types. I don't know if this is a coincidence or what.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the principles of a democratic society, accountable government and international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner consistent with the Constitution.
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Probably just an unfortunate coincidence, especially if those are the only motors of those types that you've flown. I've flown lots of I211's and never had a problem with them. I've also flown several H123's without trouble. The H123, I211 and I284 are my favorite AT 38mm motors. Haven't yet tried the I161.
So far the only delay problem I've ever had with AT reloads was an I435-6 that ejected sometime after smashing into the ground. I got it when some of the AT reloads were being supplied with separate delay columns, so I suspect I may have been given the wrong delay.
In single-use motors, I once had a couple of H124's that ejected at burnout. On 2-3 occasions I've had some over-long delays on single-use G's, cause unknown.
Overall, I've been very pleased with the reliability of AT delays on both single-use and reloads -- and until recently, motor ejection has been my sole means of deployment. The main reason I'm using alts now is because I'm doing so much staging, and I want to be assured of deployment if the second stage fails to light.

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4 of 18 38mm WL motors I've flown have had catastrophically short delays. Compare that to 0 of 15 BJ, BT, and RL motors. In fact, I can't recall who, but someone else pointed out to me htat it was 38mm WL motors that was the common denominator. He too had encountered the problem.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
    Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

Bob's anecdotal evidence with the short delays almost EXACTLY mirrors my own, and you know Bob and I agree on almost nothing.
--
Tweak

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Tweak wrote:

I'm not doubting your's or Bob's word on this. I just think you've experienced some kind of aberration. If those motors were having delay failures at that rate all over, we'd be seeing it happen all the time, and that's not the case.
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It is called errortech.

"In all truthfulness I would rather read the worst of Jerry's diatribes than the obsequious sycophantic apologies of Mr. Dunakin" - Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

You're the only one who calls them that, and only because you're a sick, pathetic failure who is jealous of their success.
P
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That fact is inconvenient, so he ignores it.
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Hey, Twerp! here you are agreeing with me, and in your previous post you deliberately mispell my name in an unflattering matter.
Go killfile yourself!
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
It had become an universal and almost uncontroverted position in the several States, that the purposes of society do not require a surrender of all our rights to our ordinary governors; that there are certain portions of right not necessary to enable them to carry on an effective government, and which experience has nevertheless proved they will be constantly encroaching on, if submitted to them; that there are also certain fences which experience has proved peculiarly efficacious against wrong, and rarely obstructive of right, which yet the governing powers have ever shown a disposition to weaken and remove. Of the first kind, for instance, is freedom of religion; of the second, trial by jury, habeas corpus laws, free presses. -- Thomas Jefferson
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Point
"In all truthfulness I would rather read the worst of Jerry's diatribes than the obsequious sycophantic apologies of Mr. Dunakin" - Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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"There's nothing to apologize for. Apparently you are STILL incapable of understanding the difference between making a statement of fact, and the listing of possible scenarios." - Ray Dunakin 5-10-05, ultimate TRA apologist
"Even IF Bruce Kelly wrongfully rejected someone's membership, he did it on his own and exceeded his authority. Bob's post provided darn few facts, but one thing he did state was that this alleged incident was done without the knowledge of the BOD." - Ray Dunakin 5-8-05, ultimate TRA apologist
"In all truthfulness I would rather read the worst of Jerry's diatribes than the obsequious sycophantic apologies of Mr. Dunakin" - Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Might I humbly and respectfully suggest that such numbers infer to me that there was some kind of blow-by for the delay train?
And I'm curious if these were older delays or the newer 'plus' delays? (pure curiousity -- it would appear that if there were a 'reason' for there to be a 'new and improved' delay, maybe this explains it)
David Erbas-White
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Nope. Blowby usually results in ejection during burn. Each motor was examined in the ejection area, and nothing unusual was found.
Also, it doesn't exxplain why WL only. I'm not the only one who noticed the WL connection.

Old. 1995-2001.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
It had become an universal and almost uncontroverted position in the several States, that the purposes of society do not require a surrender of all our rights to our ordinary governors; that there are certain portions of right not necessary to enable them to carry on an effective government, and which experience has nevertheless proved they will be constantly encroaching on, if submitted to them; that there are also certain fences which experience has proved peculiarly efficacious against wrong, and rarely obstructive of right, which yet the governing powers have ever shown a disposition to weaken and remove. Of the first kind, for instance, is freedom of religion; of the second, trial by jury, habeas corpus laws, free presses. -- Thomas Jefferson
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Interesting. On the one hand, we have two people who say they've had short delays on certain motors, and on the other hand we have Jerry who claims that extra-long delays are "common". So even the couple of folks who have had problems, have not had the type of problem that Jerry claims is "common".
i
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It's not just me. NAR S&T documents significant differences (significant enough that AT had to change the designation to meet the NFPA specs on several of the reload delays. This is a documented FACT, not subject to debate. IIRC all but one of the out of spec delays are SHORT.
Alas, most of the HPR motors, including ALL of the 38mm WL motors I've had with way short delays were tested by TRA TMT, and they keep the results of the delay testing a SECRET. One of these days, there's going to be an accident as a result of one of these inaccurate delays, and TRA *WILL* be named in the lawsuit, and all of their test data subpoenaed. The decade long cover up will end eventually, and it won't be a good day for TRA.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the principles of a democratic society, accountable government and international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner consistent with the Constitution.
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

Ah, come on Bob, it HAS to be all about Jerry to satisfy Ray!
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
  Click to see the full signature.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

jerry, you're touching yourself right now, aren't you?
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

It's a conspiracy I tell you!!!!! The sky is falling....it is, it IS!!!! Take your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty ape!!!
http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2005-06-09_631662153800056/movie_stars/heston/dirty_ape.wav
Ted 'and about that moon landing.....' Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75
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says...

And that tiresome crap is why Kraplow is in my killfile.
--
Tweak

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On 9 Jun 2005 20:37:19 -0500, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

Bob-
You say TMT has kept delay tests a secret. I'd like to know -
have you ever contacted the TMT Chairman and asked for the information?
If so who you asked.
What their response was.
When you attempted to get the information.
I doesn't seem right that they would refuse to provide the information. Maybe with these specifics, we can get you the information without a hassle.
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