[history] MR-LMR-HPR-?

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Fixated.

Jerry Irvine wrote:
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Maybe it's all that money that you owe Me.

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:45:25 GMT, Dave Grayvis
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Shite happens when you 'Live the Life.' Right 'Big FIne?'

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Permission to imprint the product with CE indicia and offer for consumer sale in europe and other areas.
Jerry

I stand corrected.....for some odd reason some AT/RCS reloads in the 54mm range are indeed exempt from explosives licenses.... but they still require a registered explosives store (ie magazine) and require the UK RCA certificate......
http://www.hpr.org.uk/hprhome.htm?hpr/legal/certificates-hdr.htm&hpr/legal/certific.htm
shockie B)
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shockwaveriderz wrote:
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this is
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their
No propaganda, just my own reasoned judgement.
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even the
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explosive
As bad as their regs are, in some ways they have it better than we do. As I understand, the permits are cheaper and easier to obtain, and the storage regs are much less harsh.
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country
So what? Model rocketry is kid stuff. It's no replacement for high power.
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the laws
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and done
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That's how the hobby started.
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can
Or we could throw the facists out and take back our government.
ˇ

ray: you gonna have to explain this one to me:
"That's how the hobby started."
How did this hobby start with black market motors?
lets see.. orville carlise hand made the first "commerical motors".... and then when supply could not keep up with demand, they were made 1st by Brown Manufacturing and then Estes....
shockie B)

shockwaveriderz wrote:
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motors"....
1st by
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Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant High Power Rocketry, not modrocs. In the beginning, HPR was largely a renegade activity. If everyone had waited for it to become completely legal, we'd still be waiting today and HPR would not exist.

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Where is Brown Manufacturing today?

I don't know where Brown Mfg. is today..they probably do not exist as they were actually a fireworks manufacturer. and its my understanding that the rocket motors they were producing were prone to "cato" so G.Harry approached estes or vice versa and the rest is history as they say...
shockie B)
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No, adults made their rocket motors mostly legally and flew rockets before MR.
Like you saw on october sky by the way.
problem was kids did too, like you saw on october sky, and many blew up causing problems.
Model Rocketry (tm) was a business started to keep kids from blowing them selves up and worked real well, even to this day.
Adults still built un regulated and generaly in most places legal rockets, known as armature rocketry (tm)
they got heads butting with MR due to MR advertising AR as bad and evil causing AR to get looked at as bad.
most AR went and ignored the MR so they could do as they pleased.
Some MR folks made larger MR motors, like Irv and FSI etc..
That got many young MR safe and sane scientists getting the taste for needing even larger motors for their experiments.
FSI and Enerjets were not large enough.
Green motors appeared at gatherings and conventions and those in the know got them.
Experiments continued and larger rocket built on MR techniques rather then AR techniques appeared.
Really this was still AR, but using MR style AP motors and Rockets.
MR folks didn't like it and Who flew the ""G" started.
To keep that from getting branded as evil, a group got together and formed a corporation that had legal exemption on the then current and only NFPA 1122 and used the name of an old 1964 science club. It was legal and working.
Soon, this band of folks were being called "biker rocketry" by some hand wringers.
many in the NAR went to the new club to fly large rockets and motors and have access to larger payloads.
the NAR saw this and understood they too must embrace larger motors, or they would be left with just the contest rocket base for adult memberships.
this is the cliff notes of the first three chapters in the triolgy.

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A lot of details left out and a strong regional bias (North central), but this should be in the FAQ.
Jerry

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Is that when you use spin stabilization?
- Rick "Amateur pedant" Dickinson

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agreed.
It is akin to getting an overnight parking permit from the police. (Suburban CA areas sometimes ban overnight parking).

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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Wanting to grow a bit in the hobby at least to level one. I explored the prospect of being able to acquire some 4F BP for possible use in the future, for a mini dual deployment system. Mini due to the fact that I would incorporate it in a G or less model so I could fly it locally. I appreciate the privilege to travel and see M sized models go up. Really neat but I'd like to be able to enjoy the hobby locally without the special requirements. It looks like in my state, Illinois, I simply have to get a Firearm Owners ID card. Fair enough. Fill out the form, send in the $15.00 (I think) and then I would be able to legally hold BP. I also could acquire a rifle, handgun or shotgun (Getting fingerprinted for a pistol.) and would be able to directly blast away at any or everything, man or beast until arrested, shot or killed. (sarcasm here) Now if I wish to store a few of the larger APCP motors, I have to pay $100.00 a year, get interviewed by the BATF to make sure I have no evil intents and then renew at $100.00 a year to boot. Really makes sense doesn't it. I Damn sure hope the lawsuit is won.
I talked to a rocketeer who says he lives in a residential area about the LEUP issue and he said he got his and the agent said he didn't consider it a problem to store K engines in his house. That certainly goes against the grain although I believe the modeler and the agent are right that it is no big deal.
Kurt Savegnago

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The vision of Vern Estes was to DIFFERENTIATE rocketry from firearms and fireworks. Until the most recent spate of TRA/NAR/Quest/Estes/AT leaders forwarded the NFPA process, it was working too.
Most states had "aeromodel" exemptions.
ATF had a wide exemption.
Federal Firearms regs allowed recreational use of BP.
CPSC only wanted to protect children.
FAA increased their exempt limits "the exact amount asked".
ALL new restrictions have been added by NAR/TRA/Quest/Estes/AT via the NFPA process and by the respective BOD's of NAR and TRA by internal rule additions, none of which are motivated or mandated by safety, field practice, or experienced events.
In fact most have been political, bureaucratic, proactive against a problem that does not exist, revenge, or pure ego.
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I TOLD YOU SO.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:
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Which they now say does not apply.
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IF you parse the sentence that way, maybe. ATF doesn't.
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And now they're just as out of control and power-mad as the ATF.
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the
rule
Bull! TRA/NAR do not make ATF policy. They do not make CPSC policy. Internal organizational rules of TRA/NAR did not create ATF's policy to regulate rocket motors, nor can those orgs reverse ATF policy simply by changing their internal rules.
E

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Yes TRA does. I have posted the proof (which you REPEATEDLY ignore). Hence moron.
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Jerry Irvine wrote:
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You have never posted such information, so apparently, you're the moron.
Tell us now, just how NAR and TRA control the Federal government.

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One obvious way is a lawsuit.