In California, harrased by off duty fireman while launching

I live near Sacramento CA. I was minding my own business launching my Estes model rockets last Saturday. just as I did the final launch some guy on his motor cycle turned around and came back. He got off the bike and started calling on his cell phone. I gathered up my rockets and launch equipment and walked to my truck. The guy came up to me very irritated and told me that he worked for the fire department. He said he had just called in a report on me using illegal fireworks. I was flabbergasted. I said these aren't fire works. They are Estes Model rockets. They can be purchased at any hobby store. He just yelled at me "if it smokes and it flies it is an illegal fire work". He then asked without giving me time to respond, "Is it smoke or steam. Is it smoke or steam. Is it smoke or steam". I said it was smoke. I pulled out one of my C6-7 engines and handed it to him, saying, "This is what they are. They aren't suppose to blow up like fire works" (did not tell him that I've had one do just that). He said I don't know about these. All I know is that if it smokes and it flies it is illegal. Finally after trying for several minutes to convince him that it was no fire work he asked if he could take the motor to the fire station and ask the other firemen if they knew anything about them. I said sure. Once again he threatened me that if it did not check out I would be arrested. He then said do I have to turn in your licence plate number or are you going to give me your name and phone number. I politely said I'll give you my name and number.

This kind of experience makes one want to either give up the hobby or jump to the next higher skill level just for spite! How should I deal with idiots like this fine fireman?

By the way I have not heard a word from either the police nor the fire department and it has been 5 days since the incident.

KT

Reply to
kimballt
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Next time, show Him the CSFM seal on the motor.

Reply to
Dave Grayvis

Item 1: in California, what you did was illegal, unless you previously obtained permission from both the landowner (I'm assuming the parks department in your case) and the fire department (you need a permit). Unfortunately, that's the way it is here.

Item 2: despite item 1, my response would have been to call the cops myself and have him arrested for harassment, assault, or whatever else would have been appropriate. Just because "he works for the fire department" doesn't give him the right to act like an ass. If he actually knew what he was talking about, he would have KNOWN the difference between a model rocket and fireworks (they ARE expressly different in the law).

Just my two cents worth...

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

And as further follow up, at that point I would have demanded HIS name and ID, and ask him if he wanted to be arrested for impersonating an officer. After all, legitimate law enforcement personnel have a badge, and show ID on request.

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

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Even for California sounds like he's a rookie to me.

Still, I suggest reporting it to NAR. Mark has asked that we report any harrassment, not just ATF, etc.

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Randy

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Reply to
<randyolb

You live in the Republic of Kalifornia; what do you expect?

Reply to
WallaceF

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Reply to
shreadvector

California sucks. I did have permision from the land owner. Or so I thought. According to the off duty fireman the lady I recieved permission from does not own the land as she had indicated. Don't know if that is true or if he was just blowing smoke.

KT

Reply to
kimballt

snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net wrote in news:7p3ze.1524$6% snipped-for-privacy@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

A strange,unidentified guy walks up to you and asks for your name and phone number. And you give it to him? How do you know he's even a fireman?

Reply to
Jim Yanik

I would have pointed to the State Fire Dept seal on the engine and told him to go complain to them about it. The major troubls this past 4th was that every t.v. news cast some officer was always being shown saying that if it flew into the air it was unlawfull. I've had the local cops watch my launching and they enjoy seeing them fly. Ofcouse I'm in Kern county, home of Mojave Spaceport, where they had last month a model rocket launch attened by over 7,000 school kids flying their own birds.

Reply to
Starlord

Maybe the guy was looking for a good time.

Reply to
jabario

I'd recommend you join a club and launch with them instead.

Reply to
J.A. Michel

One more reason I'm glad I don't live in California. As for dealing with an idiot like that I myself would have called the cops on him the minute he started spouting off. Since your not allowed to shoot someone for that let the local police deal with it. At worst you would probably get a warning for maybe not haveing the real land owner's permission but maybe this guy would have had his but chewed by the cops. Hard to say but we just had a 60 year old little league umpire beaten up by a players father because he evicted his kid. It's hard to say how things might get out of control if this guy wants to argue. Call the cops and tell them he threatened you, which he did.

Denis Boudreau Wellington, OH

Reply to
Denis Boudreau

If he was blowing smoke, he might be an illegal firework. I'd call the cops.

Mario

Reply to
Mario Perdue

Great point. A fireman can't legally arrest someone.

Reply to
David

Penalty for not haveing BOTH the landowners permission AND the permission of the Fire Authority Having Jurisdiction (in the form of a permit most of the time since you cannot "prove" verbal permission - as stated in writing from the CSFM) is $1000 fine AND/OR up to 1 year in jail for each violation.

We have heard of police sitting and watching 'mom and kids' launch 2 models in a school yard in the San Fernando valley and then walking over to them and handing them the ticket for the $2000 fine.

Also got a call from a guy (never heard from again) who was going before a judge for the one year in jail for launching in Long Beach CA (at a park not far from the Long Beach airport main runway).

"Warnings" seem to be issued less and less these days. They seem to be going for the fines.

-Fred Shecter

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Reply to
shreadvector

That is just crazy. Obviously California cops have way too much time on thier hands. What are the basis for these fines? Terrorist regulations post 9/11? Safety due to fire concerns? I just don't understand how they can even come to a fine of $1000 for launching a model rocket. DUI drivers probably pay less in fines for thier first offense. Hearing stories like these makes California sound like a communist state where you will need papers to walk your dog around the block.

Denis

Reply to
Denis Boudreau

I had to stop doing launches for the Saugus Union School District due to the increasingly strict anti-rocket policies of the LA County parks Dept. Many of the schools in the district use LA County Park land as their play and recreation area. For over 6 years beginning in 1995 I had no trouble securing permits or insurance. Then, after a change in leadership and BEFORE

9/11, the Parks Dept. abruptly stopped issuing any permits at all. The cities of Burbank and Glendale as well as Pasadena have very similar policies..so much so that any school rocketry is verboten.
Reply to
Reece Talley

It's too bad you don't have any high-tech space-related agencies nearby, to show them the value of kids getting into model rocketry. You know, something like CalTech, or JPL, or... Ohhhhh....

David Erbas-White

Reply to
David Erbas-White

It is not crazy.

The fire regulations have existed for decades - ever since "Model Rockets" were made a clearly classified subset of 'fireworks' so they would not be lumped in with banned fireworks.

Enforcement has imcreased as building and population density have increased as well as other rocket related factors. Here are just a few reason:

  • More houses than ever are built right up into the brush covered hills. Kids set fire to the hills above Yorba Linda about 15 years ago launching their Estes model rockets illegally at the end of a street. BIG fire. Parents sued for well over 100K for the cost of putting out the fire. Excellent covereage in the Orange County Register including a "box" insert story detailing where to go to legally and safey launch Model Rockets and how the kids KNEW they were launching illegally.
  • Incidents with High Power Rockets crashing FAR outside of the 'way too small' parks and school yards where IDIOTS launched them. Those newspaper reports often tell of the Bomb Squad being called out to investigate the "missile" that crashed throught the roof of the house or crashed next to the toddler in the back yard.
  • One of my favorites it the man who was electrocuted and set on fire and dangled from the power pole while on fire/dying. He launched a rocket on his street with his kid. It landed on the power lines. He climbed the pole with a rod to knock the rocket off the wire. His kid watched him as he was electrocuted and set on fire and then dangled while burning. RESULT: Wal Mart and Michaels in this small LA County City were visited by fire department and had all rocketry related products removed. I don't think they were confiscated, simply told to get rid of them and that they did not have a permit to retail/store them (required for retail in CA by the state regulations - typical for most hobby shops nationwide - they require some sort of fire inspection or permit).

We claim that we self-police and can be completely safe, but only a few IDIOTS ruin it for HUNDREDS perhaps THOUSANDS of us.

We should prosecute the (surviving) IDIOTS and support the safe people.

Example: The Orange County Fire Authority has a link to our local NAR section homepage on their website. It's under Safety and Education/School/Model Rocket Safety.

;-)

-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

Reply to
shreadvector

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