In California, harrased by off duty fireman while launching

wrote:


It's a nice place to visit, but I would not want to live there.
Alan
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First they came for...
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
We need to ensure that actions by our government uphold the principles of a democratic society, accountable government and international law, and that all decisions are taken in a manner consistent with the Constitution.
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That's one good reson for living in KERN, and last month they had a launch of mod rocs at the Mojave spaceport for over 7,000 kids and plan on doing it yearly too.
--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
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It is not crazy.
The fire regulations have existed for decades - ever since "Model Rockets" were made a clearly classified subset of 'fireworks' so they would not be lumped in with banned fireworks.
Enforcement has imcreased as building and population density have increased as well as other rocket related factors. Here are just a few reason: * More houses than ever are built right up into the brush covered hills. Kids set fire to the hills above Yorba Linda about 15 years ago launching their Estes model rockets illegally at the end of a street. BIG fire. Parents sued for well over 100K for the cost of putting out the fire. Excellent covereage in the Orange County Register including a "box" insert story detailing where to go to legally and safey launch Model Rockets and how the kids KNEW they were launching illegally. * Incidents with High Power Rockets crashing FAR outside of the 'way too small' parks and school yards where IDIOTS launched them. Those newspaper reports often tell of the Bomb Squad being called out to investigate the "missile" that crashed throught the roof of the house or crashed next to the toddler in the back yard. * One of my favorites it the man who was electrocuted and set on fire and dangled from the power pole while on fire/dying. He launched a rocket on his street with his kid. It landed on the power lines. He climbed the pole with a rod to knock the rocket off the wire. His kid watched him as he was electrocuted and set on fire and then dangled while burning. RESULT: Wal Mart and Michaels in this small LA County City were visited by fire department and had all rocketry related products removed. I don't think they were confiscated, simply told to get rid of them and that they did not have a permit to retail/store them (required for retail in CA by the state regulations - typical for most hobby shops nationwide - they require some sort of fire inspection or permit).
We claim that we self-police and can be completely safe, but only a few IDIOTS ruin it for HUNDREDS perhaps THOUSANDS of us.
We should prosecute the (surviving) IDIOTS and support the safe people.
Example: The Orange County Fire Authority has a link to our local NAR section homepage on their website. It's under Safety and Education/School/Model Rocket Safety.
;-)
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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I agree Fred. One of my toughest tasks is getting my students to understand that they may not launch their rockets in either Glendale or Burbank. Still, some insist on doing it any way. Even under my supervision out at El Mirage, many try and fly rockets that are unstable to say the least. When I refuse to launch them, the kids beg for me to change my mind. "Not a chance", I tell them. All I need is for one kid to get hurt and the insurance Co. will pull the plug on what has been a very educational experience and an annual tradition. As to city launches, non-Kalipornians perhaps have never seen the ancient shake roofs many homes have here nor do they have an appreciation for the density of the buildings and the proliferation of very very dry weeds and grasses. I had a legal and documented launch back in May out in Lancaster that almost went south on me. Using kid built and parent supervised rockets from a well-known and responsible kit supplier, these cub scouts were attempting their merit badges. The parents provided C6-5 motors and almost every single rocket was just barely stable. One went land shark on me and skipped a couple of hundred yards into the dry grass. A fire erupted almost immediately. Thankfully, the dads, some of whom were firemen, got it put out in short order. I swapped all of the C6-5s for A8-3s and things went perfectly after that. Had someone without rocket experience been doing this, they would have never recognized the cause behind the stability issue. If we hadn't had a fire suppression team, shovels and an extinguisher, in other words, been ready, a huge fire would have been the result. Rocketry in dry, heavily populated areas like SoCal requires special precautions be taken. That's why I support organized clubs and supervises launches over backyard rocketry. It's just better for everyone that way.
--
R. J. Talley
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Which one?
Which particular kit?
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Not one of your kits Jerry nor one of Estes. The kit was sound but not with the larger C motors. I'm not mentioning the name of the manufacturer out of fairness. Some might blame him unjustly for a problem that was clearly related to the way in which the rockets were built.
--
R. J. Talley
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Pratt.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Was it one of the models discussed/mentioned/warned about on our "Safety Advisory"? If not, let us know. The c.g. shift aftward casued by folks using the most powerful motor possible for the first flight (usually C6-5 or C6-7) is our biggest headache at regular launches. The Park may in fact insist upon using only lower power motors to reduce both the downrange ballistic impact distance and the recovery drift into trees.
http://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/safety.pdf
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
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No, it was none of those on your list. Again, if the model had been flown with the recommended engine and had they been built with more skill, there would have been no problem.
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
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also, long before model rocketry, or high power rocketry were allowed in CA, they were considered FIREWORKS and were completely banned from use!
shockie B)

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When the model rocket caucus (similar folks to the NFPA group) last met in Sacremento to "review the rules" the "Estes contingent" "with the support of the Aerotech contingent", changed the field size from 1/4 the expected altitude to 1/2 the expected altitude and modified the FD permission from verbal to writing (the death knoll for MR in CA IMHO.)
They also uopgraded the landowner treatment to SPECIFICALLY require it.
As it was before, in practice if the cops wanted to shew you from a site they would use a disturbing the peace claim thus allowing you to leave gracefully.
The new regeime makes any overt act not in strict compliance a crime. Immediately punishable by fine and jail.
Your model rocket caucus hard at work.
Jerry
I told you so.
http://www.v-serv.com/usr/images/CSFM2.jpg

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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and you can prove this with actual documentation?
shockie B)

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18 yr old docs.......sheesh jerry...you would think you would have used white out to forge a newer date..... shockie B)

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shockwaveriderz wrote:

Not to mention the fact that it says "fireworks advisory committee.
It does NOT mention rocketry.
Besides that, fireworks are illegal in Ca.

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That's about the extent of it. "The Republic of California". Thanks to all those liberals here. Funny the word liberal would indicate liberty or free but it is just the opposite. There is a law against everything here. California Communist Republic. I work at a rocket motor factory called Aerojet. We have a contract with Lockheed Martin in Denver. Well their employees make frequent trips to CA on business. One of the guys I deal with got a tax bill from our great state for wages that he was paid by Lockheed in Denver where he works. California's reasoning is that if he spends more than 30 days in CA on business he has to pay CA state tax. It does not matter if they are not consecutive days. He spent a week here and a week there but the cumulative amount was more than 30 days so he got a tax bill. I told him to have his employer pay the taxes since they made him go to CA. Or the other option was not to pay it at all. What is CA going to do go to Denver to arrest him?
KT
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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net wrote:

Nah, Ca will just wait till he comes back!
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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net writes:

They do the same thing to sports stars who play an occasional game in CA.
In your case, how would the state even know that the individual spent X days working there.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
... One nation under surveillance, divisive, with liberty and justice for none.
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On 9-Jul-2005, kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

You know that was what I was woundering. Maybe Lockheed submitted some paperwork to get a tax deduction??? I don't know.
KT
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As I have posted over and over, "field judgement" is dead.
We live in a formal police state.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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