Hot Glue on a Alpha

A friend of mine has a Cub Scout den that wants to make some model rockets. I recommended the Estes' bulk packs. We were discussing the
difference between the Viking and Alpha packs. As I recall, the Alpha (not Alpha III) has balsa fins and I thought that might be a bit more difficult to build in the time allotted since the glue on the fins would need to dry.
Tom came up with the idea of using a hot glue gun for the fins. Not sure I like the idea, hot glue has a tendency to not stick well in some situations.
Anyone tried this?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The back end of an Alpha may just get hot enough to re-melt the glue while you watch the fins drop off in flight or while recovering it.
There are some aliphatic resin adhesives that will set in 30 minutes or less - a much better choice, I would think.
--
Mike KD7PVT
NAR #70953 - Sr/HPR Level-1 ~ BEMRC - NAR Section #627
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I've seen it and it's a safety disaster. Rockets get HOT. Hot melt glue *MELTS* when it gets hot. Rocket falls apart in flight. Burning motors pinwheeling across the sky, out of the sky and (potentially) into childrens faces/eyes/mouths.
Alphas and Vikings were OK when that was all you had to choose from. Now you have the better E2X model or any of the Quest models (Starhawk, Astra, Viper). The Alpha is too damned short to get enough wadding in and protect the recovery system for beginners. The Viking has cardboard fins and they bend easily and if you use the low profile configuaration are a stability problem. The Generic E2X is great. All the Quest models are great and have Kevlar shock cord anchors. And Quest motors have tons of tracking smoke AND the new Q2 igniters are fantastic.
http://www.questaerospace.com/pages/products_edu.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/safety.pdf
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsassZshreadvector
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi Fred,
I do like the Quest motors but wished they put out a bit more black smoke. Stuck three B6-4's in an old Estes Cobra reprised kit and it is better than Estes B6-4's with smoke, only would like more. I suspect there is a limit to the amount of chemicals you can put in the engines to make the smoke but I bought some bulk packs of the Quest engines. Hate the tiger tails and wished the Q2's would have come with them.
Kurt Savegnago
shreadvector wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
shreadvector wrote:

Only problem with the quest QuickKits for example is that they do not seem to fit the estes launch rod. But if you use a quest rod I guess that isn't an issue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
shreadvector wrote:

I agree completely with Fred about this. It works for kids of almost any age (k-12+). It's cheap. It's flexible.
- It is simple enough to be built in a single session. (First timers are usually more interested in the first launch)
- It can be decorated with stickers, crayons or markers.
- For more advanced users, forget the plastic fin can. All of the pieces of a standard engine mount are there. Add some cheap sheets of balsa from the hobby store, and copies of the Alpha plans.
- You can even supply several different fin templates, and let the kids creativity be their guide. Run them thru Rocksim first.
- Put two kits together as a mongoose clone.
Lots of possibilities, lots of fun.
--
Curtis

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Have you tried the Quest Viper or Starhawk (or any of the other educator bulk packs?).
You can't beat the ultra-simple and sturdy assembly and the Kevlar shock cord anchor.
--
-Fred Shecter
remove zorch two places to reply
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 03:31:52 GMT, "Fred Shecter"

Having purchased a "whole lotta Starhawks" from Fred, I can agree that the ease of construction, and the typical Quest design features make it an excellent rocket for large groups of very small kids...
<g>
My youngest daughter who was in second grade at the time put one together perfectly in about 30 minutes with just Titebond as an adhesive.
FWIW..
tah
--
Tod A. Hilty
Hilty Information Systems
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Shall I assume that it was the 2005 version of the Starhawk, since she used only yellow glue?
Those 2005 versions are perfectly engineered. And insanely cheap. And durable. i have never seen a beginner model survive so many flights. THAT is the way to get beginners hooked forever. If their first model falls apart after one or two flights, they regard model rockets as junky toys. If it survives many flights, they regard model rockets as "durable", "valuable", "fun", and worthy of respect.
;) http://www.questaerospace.com/pages/products_edu.htm
The Astra is longer than the Alpha, so you can actually install wadding AND the parachute.
-Fred Shecter
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 28 Oct 2005 05:44:26 -0700, "shreadvector"

I think it was... Whatever it was you sent me. Excellent models.
<snip>

Absolutely correct. And they're an awsome flyer on Quest A6-4's...

tah
--
Tod A. Hilty
Hilty Information Systems
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Fred Shecter wrote:

I haven't yet. I have mostly done Estes or scratch. I hope do do a group build in early spring, so it looks like it's time to expand my horizons. Thanks for the info.
--
Curtis

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Curtis.... what exactly are you and your friends building?
Sorry, couldn't resist. ; )
Randy www.vernarockets.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wayne Johnson wrote:

DON'T DO IT!!!
Hot glue is horrible for use on model rockets -- the heat from the engine will loosen the glue enough to cause the fins to separate -- and frankly it's not strong enough in the first place.
David Erbas-White
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Apply a really thin film of white or yellow glue to the root edges of the fins, as well as the body tube of the rocket, where the fins will attach. Let dry 5-10 minutes, then apply a bit more glue to the roots of the fins. Press in place on the body tube for a few seconds, and they will stick there. Allow to dry completely, then apply glue fillets as usual.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The double-glue method works surprisingly well. It bonds immediately and quite stiffly (you often don't need to prop up the fins), but you have to wait for it to really harden.
Alternatives:
- Small amounts of CA glue to tack the fins on, and then fillet with white/yellow glue. CA may be a hazard for some Cubs.
- Tack on with 5 minute epoxy (need to support the fins while it hardens), then fillet with white/yellow glue. The leader needs to mix tiny amounts.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'm visualizing a group of cub scouts, handling multiple bottles of CA glue, assisting each other trying to glue fins onto body tubes, most of them who have never built a rocket or handled CA before.
It's not a pretty sight.
But it is a little amusing, in a twisted sorta way. ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The result would be a cluster of cub scouts.
-- David

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Gives new meaning to the term "pack" of cub scouts.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Wayne Johnson wrote:

"Pack" sounds to organized.
I envision it more of a "glob", sort of like that bowl of hard candy on your Grandmother's coffee table.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
It's the time that it takes to dry that is the problem. Most den's only meet for an hour of so.
Guess the E2X kits are a better idea.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.