JC, TRA and the future of rocketry

these statements are not consistent with the facts

- iz

RayDunak> A former TMT chairman who one day decided that all HPR and EX is illegal, and

I was making a joke ... notice the wink?

I am one who has stepped up as a facilitator of communication. That function has agreement were it is necessary.

External opinions regarding that choice, or speculation regarding its merit or lack thereof are irrelevant.

- iz

J.A. Michel wrote:

The word indefensible has a legal meaning that based on my independent research is not accurate.

I not agree with what he did, but I also agree what he said about legality was based in law. Laws that are not enforced.

And bypassing dozens of killfiles :)

The proof was verified by many in and out of TRA. TRA just said "we'll do better in the future", which never occured either, just like promises of catching upon magazines or "getting ATF out of the hobby".

Jerry

The comments from state officials are public record. Just do a google search or click the link below:

John hurt a lot of people by acting unilaterally. Before going to the land owner about the EX stuff he made no effort to contact the four non-EX NAR sections who also used the Perry field. That's a fact.

His opposition to NSL '99 had nothing to do with EX or HPR either. It was more of a tantrum than anything else.

Do you mean to imply that TMT isn't currently testing motors?

Joel. phx

Sometimes speculation and especially perceptions make both merit and fact irrelevent, regardless of good intentions!!

Fred

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

don't let my official affiliations fool you

I am an analyst, engineer and manager by profession of 22 years. If I cannot establish rapport with insiders and identify significant problem areas in an organization within three months, I would not be worth my salary.

Since I turned my attention to the legislative and political issues affecting rocketry some 9 months ago, I have learned enough to know that the national organizations have hoodwinked more than a few, and have an agenda that prioritizes their continuity and influence above the future of "amateur" rocketry and the interests of vendors, site owners and members.

what you call the fringes define the parameters, while what you might feel is mainstream would be what? TRA party line? Aerotech market dominance? support of 0.9 lbs of "model rocket motors" in "recreational model rockets" as a validation of BATFE oversight?

take a step back Ray, .... way back.

- iz

RayDunak> And just how knowledgeable are you, Iz? You've only been in this hobby what, a

This should be in the FAQ and mandatory reading for all rocketeers.

That's not what you wrote. "do better in the future" (IMO) does not mean removing errors from the list, it means ensuring 'future' certifications are done by the books. Are they currently being done by the books or aren't they.

Joel. phx

Since I am not in the loop I cannot be certain. However I do know they refuse to certify motors that qualify, and decertify motors they intentionally used as leverage against me in the past (Kosdon). The "irregularities" are real.

The issue of the post was SPECIFICALLY the charges Cato made and those charges were real and true. I have not followed the details of which motors have been endlessly renewed and which have been tested anew. Have you?

Maybe you have something to contribute to the discussion besides inuendo and change of subject.

we can only hope they are. John Cato was in a position to know, and found (and has documented) sufficient discrepancies in testing (and a policy of applying the rules where it supports some agenda), to ultimately resign as TMT chair in frustration.

if testing anomolies were to occur today, would the persons in a position to know be inclined to go public? There is no way to say, unless there are and they do. I would like to believe that there are some individuals within TRA that have the integrity and the opportunity to insure sound and consistently applied policies.

but as this ROL post by Kenneth McGoffin indicates, the TRA BoT even recently appeared to do precisely what it wants

"I was on the first TRA committee that looked at EX. We voted to not recommend it be included under the Tripoli 'big tent.' The BoD went and appointed another committee that said yes. Their perogative, and so far--knock on wood--it hasn't bitten Tripoli on the butt."

can motor testing be validated by an independent party? what of those vendors who were barred from the market due to testing that was not in fact performed [for political reasons], or which is suspect? can those products be retested? and what of the opportunity cost of not having been permitted access to markets while BATFE's oversight was not so aggressive?

there is a fair amount of information about TRA workings that is veiled behind the ostensible 'delegation of responsibilty' to the BoT. I am not optimistic about the prospects in the near term. It may take a protracted process to retire some entrenched TRA 'power brokers', and have a new breed of leaders supplant them.

- iz

Joel Corwith wrote:

So with which "insiders" have you established a rapport? Cato certainly isn't an "insider", by any stretch of the imagination. Jerry hasn't been an insider for a long time, currently he's just an EX guy who is still crying over his inability to legally sell motors. Wickman is another EX guy with a grudge against TRA. Hmm, I think I see a pattern here -- anyone who has an axe to grind is an "insider". Right.

It certainly isn't anyone who believes that all high power and EX is illegal and should be immediately shut down until things conform to his own unique definition of "legality".

Which reminds me, you still haven't said anything about how Cato's wacko beliefs jibe with your own support for both EX and high power. Or is the fact that he also hates TRA the only thing that matters to you?

Iz wrote:

Why is it anyone who uses objective fact to expose and criticize your idols must therefore be "crying", "grudge", "ax to grind"?

And you have suspended logic and rational thought to initiate your own diatribe.

Jerry

yes I did, you just weren't paying attention. See below your comment.

- iz

RayDunak> Which reminds me, you still haven't said anything about how Cato's wacko

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed,

Did you cross-post this all on your own volition, or are you once again posting at the wishes of John Wickman?

In any event, as JW's appointed internet contact person please find out and state for the record whether JW fully embraces what John Cato has said.

I'm sure a lot of people would want to know that, on the record.

- George Gassaway

this conversation is my own, originating on ROL with subject of RMR culture and personalities. It progressed with John Cato responding to Ray

sorry to disappoint you, George

but your attention is better spent putting your own house in order

- iz