Sounds good now hammer this to the powers that be in the orgs.
organizations
Sounds good now hammer this to the powers that be in the orgs.
organizations
I have been saying that for years and in the case of NAR making specific proposals. The only growth oriented thing they have done is TARC and that is very recent and an accident of success.
But then they too would be "scared away" by the bad policies of clubs to demand ATF permits where the law states clear exemptions. Club policy must change FIRST.
I strongly, fully agree. Now it is ieas.org's turn.
I was on track to generate it before they banned me. Look how many people I had at my launches!!
Or other soldiers given the lesson for the first time. Stop thinkling bi-polar. NAR and TRA are in the past, long may they dwindle. IEAS.org and many regional clubs like DARS and PRS have taken up the mantle of growth.
I agree and the level of resistence in the existing heirarchies is high. New heirarchy needed.
The very first volly should be to recertify all willing motor vendors and stop asking for ATF permits unless ordered to do so by a judge. That will make the biggest immediate and sustained benefit.
Not the banned ones. We got other jobs unlike you.
You followed this morass to destruction called Tripoli. Abandon it right this second for purposes of this wacky scheme. TRA=financial failure.
Nor will they.
Attrition my ass. Suicide!!
But Rocketfest will rock on.
Good luck and keep those bankruptcy papers handy. With TRA in the mix you're going to need them.
I have posted my commercial proposal a caouple of times right here.
When you have a 70% less costly partial solution, please let me know. ie no NYC, LA, San Fran, Chicago, 5 most expensive NE markets.
Jerry
Frank,
This is the first Marketing and Market Driven solution I have heard to the Rocket Crisis.
You have my Support. Besides asking the Board to do this, what else can I help with ?
Your old fellow M team member,
Art Upton
reply to snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.nospam.com
organizations
Not really sure what you mean by this.
------------------------------------------------------ Frank, you really don't *need* TRA/NAR BOD to accomplish this.
Ted Novak TRA#5512
He needs $88,000 during a pandemic bankruptcy environment and also wants to maintain a vendor monopoly and change nothing that got us into this mess in the first place.
Remember, rockets are countercyclical. The recession normally would have INCREASED sales.
Jerry
Interesting idea.
Not so sure about this. RocketVision advertised themselves right out of business in slick color magazine ads. And as you said, even PML ran out of advertizing $$$. If the ads really worked, they would have generated the $$$ to sustain the advertising.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!
Exactly. "Sell-through" is far more important of a variable which relies on maintaining customers (not scaring them away). Untill we fix the scare away part the outreack will be for naught. Sorry Frank.
We need alternate clubs (since the old ones refuse to change) to make a positive foot forward for interested rocket users to climb the ladder sans explosives permits in full.
Jerry
Frank
Couple of things.
1) Your idea is wonderful - I've been back in rockets for about a year after a 25 yeat post adolescence break. Please don't get discouraged by some the feedback you might get here. While I don't know all the players, there seems to be a vocal few who seem to want to stop anything that does not involve disbanding any existing organizational structure (At least that is how i interpret the postings) I wonder if they realize that this is not the revolution and there is strength in organized numbers, and we should build on existing structure rather than try to start again at the current weakend state.2) Meanwhile, I'd like to offer my assistance in what ever way I can. I am an IT professional by day and have some technical contacts that might assist on the web end. I'd also be more than willing to simply answer the mail and stuff envelops.
3) One point that you may want to work toward is that, while I do not have children, when I go to launches, i see that there is a whole lot of father/son activity (and even Father/Dayugter) - not to mention one Mother/Daughter team. If we can focus a bit on the good clean family fun aspect, that might be a strategy to help out.4) Also, as I said, while I don't have children, my wife alomst always attends, mostly to keep me from spending money, but also because it is just a nice day outside. In today's culture, perhaps we need to promote something like rocketry to offset the tide toward our young people spending their time and intellect surfing the web.
5) Finally, we do need to make this useful while not expensive, the economy is on the rebound, and for some monet is tight. I do realize that in broacast TV thgat is an oxymoron. Whatever you/we do it needs to be positive in nature. If we put up a public, or semi-public, campaign in which the lynch pin is the outrage of these congress-crittters, the ATF, and the HSA, we will lose.Those are just a few thoughts that you may find worthwhile.
Thanx
Al
organizations
Since that statement is not even couched, considering how few have replied to this thread (so far), I will say (as the target of the comments) that my statements are made WANTING THE PROPOSAL TO SUCCEED, but seeing clear and evident blocks to it succeeding. Pointing them out is a "heads-up" to address those issues before wasting $88000 unwisely.
Huh? The existing structure *IS* the weakened state.
Point.
You have a great idea and the more people you get to support that idea the better. But like you mentioned, TRA/NAR has been very conservative in that retrospec in the past. PML is a top dog vendor and that being the case has a lot of support right there. Approval from TRA/NAR BOD is hardly needed(but BOD support would be good help).
How about a PML raffle/contest??? Hell, I'm currently looking for work but I would find a way scrape some coin together to donate to such a cause.
Who DOESN'T own a PML kit???
I know my Phobos gets plenty of air time :)
Ted Novak TRA#5512
NAR and TRA have spent $60,000 on Kyte, and I understand that really tapped the resources. I understand that his fees are greater than that of the lawsuit since it began.
1) Has Kyte done anything worth $60,000? 724 is basically dead - no more or less dead, than if the $60,000 was not spent... On the other hand, the lawsuit has incurred little if any cost in the last year, as nothing is happening, so the lawsuit funds went to Kyte.... (one guy is really making out here, and I think you'll see who it is...)2) I think PML has a great idea here! But... it seems that any funds that might have been available for the ads is gone however.. NAR just raised dues by $15/year for senior members. Kind of a bad thing to do when new members need to be brought in!
3) It seems when the deal was made with 1st TV/DC, a logical thing might have been to ask for the ad time in exchange for filming rights. Even without the current crisis in the hobby, advertising NAR/TRA would have made complete sense during the broadcast. Worst case, a "bug" in the corner or a status line, with the TRA (it was their show after all) website popping up at times during the broadcast might have been appropriate. I'm not saying that this isn't in the deal, but if not, why not?
I'm was thinking along the lines of a group vendor spot. Maybe a separate spot dedicated to the organizations. Use a raffle/contest for donations for the airtime. However it's done, it would mean more mass media exposure at the very least.
Ted Novak TRA#5512
AZ Woody wrote:
Sound like the "spots" are about $68,000 for 3 - 15 sec ones...
Don't know about vendors in your area, but I don't know of one that could pay 1/10 of the cost for one of the three spots!
Business 101 Success:
1) Take over an existing market with better product or services. 2) Create a market for products or services.Frank is addressing creating a market from a huge pool of prospective rocketeers. You and Jerry, in my opinion, are comparing apples to oranges. Gaining members for NAR or Tripoli or rocketry in general is not competition of product, it's simply creating/expanding an untapped market.
Yeah I know :(
Even with the manufacturers it's still probably along the lines of 1/10 :(
I've done the math.... 2267 visits to the plasma bank.
There *has* to be way of funding for such a project. Gotta be.
Ted Novak TRA#5512
AZ Woody wrote:
You both ar eproposing putting these newly acquired prospects into the existing failed system.
>
A co-op has the best overall chance of working. Pooled monied and many vendors to choose from.
But I say again. Do you really want to attract new blood into a system that is regurgitating old bloood like a hemmorage? These people are leaving in droves in the first time in rocketry history for a reason. Fix the reason FIRST.
I have a plan that will actually work and "convert" those prospects to long term customers which is what Frank Uroda wanted when I farmed HPR and he successfully penetrated that market.
And I invited him with open arms BTW not with banning, accusations, and personal attack. The TRA/NAR metric.
Jerry
Frank (and others),
An intriguing concept. It sounds very much like the "Be A Pilot" program started by the general aviation community to encourage folks to begin pilot training:
This particular initiative is funded by a consortium of aircraft manufacturers, flight schools, and other commercial and noncommercial entities in the general aviation community. What you are proposing is almost a carbon copy of "Be A Pilot" program.
Two major concerns that will need to be addressed:
1) Funding - who pays for this? NAR and Tripoli are tapped out already. At any rate, the primary funding should flow from the commercial entities who would enjoy the immediate benefit of such a program. Unfortunately, they're probably in no condition to fund the program, either. 2) Timeline - If the funding were to be found, getting a quality spot put together for the November DIscovery Channel program would be tough. Not impossible, but certianly tough.With respect to the forthcoming programming on the Discovery Channel, perhaps the best short-term solution would be to encourage them and the show's producer to put a 15-sec tag on the end of the program encouraging folks to contact NAR and TRA for additional info on sport rocketry?
James
_______________________
James Duffy snipped-for-privacy@mac.com
And so many with money have been banned it would be futile anyway.
You could cut out the middleman and ask the discovery channel itself to make a short spot or slide to show each hour. They do promos for shows anyway and a slide of say the NAR and TRA websites (cringe) might be acceptable to them FOR FREE. You may be negotiating with the wrong folks. You want the editorial and promotions department.
And if you didn't get those URL's into 3 hours of editorial matter you just had bad planning.
frank; I was with you until you mentioned BK...why don't you ask him to return = the approx 100K hes received over the years for a phantom magazine to = pay for the commercials, I'm sure he'll be willing to cooperate with you = on that... not....
shockie b)
Challenge) in
organizations
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