Rocket Challenge on Discover

It means only what I said: It's not your hobby.

You still haven't suggested any practical means by which to achieve this.

Since you are not actively involved in high power rocketry, and the restrictions you wish to place on high power rocketry would not affect _your_ (modroc) hobby, then by my reckoning you are not a part of _my_ (high power) hobby.

If you don't like how high power launches are run, don't come to any. Don't screw with my hobby, and I won't screw with yours.

If they ignore the opinions of the people they are trying to regulate, then it's time for a new government, IMHO. Whatever happened to "government of the people, by the people, and for the people"?

Ray, again, you're scaring me.

We lost the Mile Square Park launch site (originally) due to model rocket flyers who paid no attention to common-sense launch rules. When rockets started lawn-darting into nearby golf courses and little-league diamonds, rocketry was shut down until SCRA, with a great deal of effort, opened it up again for SANCTIONED section launches only.

It does not take a lot of people to screw up the hobby for everybody, it only takes one or two being foolish about safety. And while HPR is NOT currently MY hobby, I'd like to think that at some point it could/will be, so I do have at least some level of interest in seeing that continues into the future. As someone else who's been involved in rocketry of various types for several decades, that's my take on your attitude.

You may be right, or not. I don't know. Has anyone (for example) determined whether or not an EZ-UP would actually reduce the kinetic energy of an incoming ballistic? Could Doug Pratt start using Kevlar thread to weave overhead covers? Or could there be some ALTERNATE means devised of ensuring better safety? Some that come to mind might be a mandatory (loud) beacon, or tracking device, or REQUIRED angling of the launch rod a certain number of degrees depending on wind conditions and crowd placement, etc. All of this stuff is workable, but ignoring it doesn't solve a darn thing. The attitude also makes it very difficult to bring people along ("Hey, Larry, come watch this launch with me. But, make sure you're looking up whenever there's a launch, because if one of these accidentally comes down wrong it's going to pile-driver right through your skull!").

See above. Further, it is in MY interest to further ALL hobbies (and I do my best to encourage various hobbies among people of all ages). Why? Because over the last 20 years, virtually every hobby shop I've ever known has closed its doors, and there simply aren't many left. Thus, it's in my best interests to keep your hobby alive, to keep my hobby interests alive. I would LOVE to see HPR grow enormously, for many reasons (not the least of which is that the more kids that get interested in rocketry, the more adults who will eventually support space exploration, my own hobby-horse). I think it's one of the best hobbies around, and the only real reason I'm not involved are the age old questions of time and money. But your attitude of "f-off, it's my hobby and has nothing to do with you" simply isn't true. It's small-minded and doesn't do a thing towards making the hobby better. My son is into surfing now, and you remind me of the surfers (more like gang members in my estimation) who won't let 'non-local, approved' surfers use 'their' beach.

I don't want to screw with your hobby. I want to see it continue and grow. The only way it can GROW, though, is with a bit more safety. The only reason there haven't been more accidents thus far is that the numbers are small enough that statistics haven't murdered you. Look at it this way--if there's even a SLIGHT rush of new members, the likelihood of accidents will increase. Do you want to have major injuries associated with rocketry at this time? I don't.

And the relevance of that is??? If/when the government gets involved in regulation, you would have a very hard time maintaining a regulation-free atmosphere even if ALL aerospace professionals agree with you. If there's even a vocal minority who don't agree with you, what do you think your odds of success would be? You can continue to stick your head in the sand or you can find REASONABLE solutions to problems (not no-risk solutions, I agree those don't exist--I simply see a fair amount of UNREASONABLE behavior).

Unfortunately, that ended back in the days of FDR, and has been going downhill ever since (under virtually every administration--I'm not being partisan about this).

David Erbas-White

That is excessive Ray.

If it is "Bruce Kelly's hobby" it most certainly is this guy's hobby as he has done LESS DAMAGE.

I have. Modify offset distances CLOSER according to well established, tested and published tables. Treat some of the "extreme HPR" rockets as amateur rockets WITH either overhead protection or the other measures employed by groups such as RRI at Smoke Creek (Black Rock's neighbor), since only about 1943!!!!

Attacking the messenger does NOT even address the ISSUE much less resolve it or even contribute to it Ray.

This comment ENTIRELY misses the point.

So if you do not come to my launch I can have a 100% power dive vertical flight model rocket GROUP launch (NAR members only invited) with 1000 targets/// people and it in no way impacts you Ray?

Power dives are within the safety code. They are only upper stages :)

Jerry

Pink Book Lawyer.

Yes.

No.

Point.

It's everyone's hobby that flies any kind of rocket, from stomp, to the largest HPR.

STAND TOGETHER! Randy

The authorities are not concerned about field safety and I suggest a don't ask don't tell position for now Brett. Be Clintonesque. You cannot change Ray's mind.

Get on the NFPA committee.

Wouldn't it fall somewhere under 'Pursuit of Happiness'...? ;-)

I think the real regulatory issue is that "the commercial availability of prefabricated solid propulsion systems to civilians" looks like an easy target to antiterrorists looking for something to do.

-dave w

Correction: Rocketry _at that site_ was shut down. The misdeeds of a few at that particular site by and large only affected that particular site. This distinction is relevant, since it is being argued (apparently) that HPR launches are going to have a negative effect on mod roc launches everywhere.

I don't think HPR is going to affect hobby shops very much one way or another. I've never seen a hobby shop that sells HPR materials, and few that carry more than some basic Estes stuff. About the only things I get from the local hobby shops are glue, a little stripwood, and occasionally some plywood.

If you'd been paying attention, you would notice that I never said it wasn't subject to regulation. What I find objectionable and un-American is the notion that those being regulated should have no say in it.

Once again you prove that you haven't been paying attention. I have never said that there is no problem. I simply disagree with your assessment of the severity of the problem, as well as your proposed "solutions" which are unrealistic, impractical and would destroy the hobby.

Too bad some folks would rather tear down someone else's branch of the hobby.

While, in the last 2 years, the commercial production of motors under an rigorous industrial safety regime has resulted in the primary factory burning to the ground, and has caused two explosions in the last three months.

A typical extes lawn dart with a pointy nose cone can penetrate E-Z-Up type material with no problem. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader what a larger model might do.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

That's not in the Constitution, it's in the Declaration of Independence. However, The ninth amendment might cover it.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Mario Perdue NAR #22012 Sr. L2 for email drop the planet

Kind of hard to do unless you've got a dedicated permanent range installation. I've never seen such a site in my 4 decades in the hobby. The tin roof structures at NARAM-39 and 45 certainly wouldn't stop a serious HPR lawn dart. Neither would a park picnic shelter like at NARAM-41. And other than those three, the best I've seen elsewhere is nylon or canvas.

It's critical that we find a way to get people to pay more attention at big launches. It's like playing baseball in the middle of an interstate.

I've seen several that carry HPR stuff. There's one less than 10 miles from my office, Al's Hobbies. Several others sell by mail around the country: Countdown, Red Arrow, etc. And alas, I've been to 2 (Peoria, Phoenix) that are no longer in business.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

MTA