Rocket Challenge on Discover

John DeMar said:

OK, I think we are both clear on the 'intent' now...

'precisely the wrong spot' - oh, so at your launches all people (both participants and spectators) are in some kind of specifically designated area, that has been designed to reduce the danger of injury death? And they've all been told what that spot is? Unless you've got a covered blockhouse, a statement like 'precisely the wrong spot' has no meaning. If the rocket can come in ballastic in any part of the launch area, and people can be walking in any part of the launch area, you have the potential for a disaster.

'not watching the rocket' - okay, so at your launches you require everyone (and I do mean everyone, including kids, guys prepping their next rocket, bored spouses chatting with other bored spouses) to watch each and every rocket from liftoff to touchdown? And they've all been informed of that requirement?

' not paying attention to LCO or spectators shouting a warning' - I see, so you have a public-address system that is sufficiently loud that all areas of your launch are covered, and can be clearly heard? And the LCO and spectators know how to shout a valid warning (rather than a pointless 'duck!' or 'heads up!') so that people will know what is coming in, and where? And the LCO can clearly hear what others may be saying about field conditions (recalling one post in here where the statement was made that the LCO couldn't hear spectators, prior to a launch, tell him that air traffic was in the area)?

I haven't seen the show yet, and personally haven't seen a high-power launch (love to fix that someday, BTW). So I really can't comment on the show or 'real' high power launches. But I've certainly seen some of the above at even modroc launches, and some pretty dangerous ones (I recall an Estes Skywinder that had a monster ejection charge, which occurred after apogee, that completely separated the clay-filled plastic nosecone and propelled it at even HIGHER than normal velocity straight into the ground; I'm very thankful no one was nearby).

I agree, I don't want a "Nerf World". But to ignore certain BASIC precautions (such as not smoking near BP, etc.) seems to me to be ASKING for trouble.

David Erbas-White

For instance, a rocket coming in ballistic -- that's one mistake. For it to cause injury there has to be several more mistakes made: Someone must be in the precisely the wrong spot, AND not watching the rocket, AND not paying attention to LCO or spectators shouting a warning.

I've caught lawn-darting modroc models with my hand, and seen any number of them hit soft dirt and penetrate about 1", while shattering to confetti.

One of the things that impressed me about the show was the way it made rocketry look a lot like any number of other "extreme" sports or crafts (someone mentioned motorcross? Or auto racing?) Slightly dangerous, slightly whacky, some significant skills possibly involved. But basically pretty normal. Approachable. We might like to have a higher opinion of ourselves, but I bet those other groups do too... And it's a lot better than "near terrorists and basement bombers all."

BillW

In your case George I recommend you not only catch ballistic rockets but try it with power-dives as well.

Jerry

If everyone walked around with a dunce cap they would be safe, eh?

Or short enough offset distances so the modal impact range is well away from operators and spectators.

George,

I think you better qualify this statement for our government buddies who are not above taking comments out of context.

A rocket may unpredictably hit any arbitrary spot within its range ...

In the absence of a guidance system, where a rocket hits is determined by a myriad of factors which render intentionally hitting a precise spot highly statistically improbable.

I'm sure one of you can word this better, but you get the point.

- iz

Nice rhetoric that has nothing to do with weighing the facts of the risks and basing it on experience with standard practices. Minimal rules based on ignorance is dangerous.

Still having fun being the bumbling protagonist? ;)

-John

Now that you have accurately described him, help him break free with proactive advice for change.

As was pointed out, there has to be some 'reaction time' involved (and this is absolutely reality).

If you're five feet away with a lit cigarette, you're already way too close. If you're fifty feet away, and start walking towards me, I may not even notice that you're coming towards me with a cigarette until you're thirty feet away, and by the time we're done yelling and screaming at each other about your stupidity, you'll probably be closer than five feet .

Bear in mind that a 'rule/law' such as this is intended to keep morons from killing me. I have a friend who is a pyro op, who knows how to handle stuff, and I would be far less considered about seeing him twenty feet away with a cigarette than I would with some 'Joe six-pack' observer who is clueless. Since I can't know the mindset of everyone around me, I have to 'declare' an exclusion zone that will allow me to keep the 'Joe six-pack' mentality from creating havoc.

David Erbas-White

Back in 1962 when I was in 1st grade, our teacher made the bad kids sit in the corner with one of those things on. I remember thinking it looked like a rocket from a sci-fi movie.

Randy

Bullpup?

Randy

I dissagree. Can you imagine the headlines: Sport rocketeer blows his head off while preparing a rocket for flight. Senator Enzi, who was was visiting the launch, was also blinded and suffered a severe concussion and extensive burns. The Senator is expected to recover, and he voved from his hospital bed that he would introduce legislation to bannish sport rocketry. Irresponsible actions can impact more than just to fools directly involved.

Even worse is the scenario where nothing happens, except that other fools notice a guy smoked while preping a rocket and nothing bad happened, so they conclude it is safe and do likewise. Soon it becomes the accepted practice. Even if no such accident ever occurs from smokig, it looks irresonsible to observers. We need to present an honest impression that all sport rocketeers are responsible people who can be trusted with pyrotechics. While "Those Wacky Guys and thier Flamin' Flying Machines" may be entertaining to watch, it may not build the image that all sport rocketeers are responible.

Alan

Does anyone (besides old Estes propaganda about why you should buy their motors instead of trying to make them - "our country needs live rocket scientists who have all their fingers and hands...") ever actually _use_ the term "basement bomber"?

-dave w

With that as your basis for supporting your proposition of disagreement you almost have me convinced.

Just as soon as you develop a sense of probabilities, likely outcomes, cause and effect, and historical reference, I will be all the way convinced.