ROL NEWS--Ellis Mountain Motor Delays Certified

Hum... Will I be able to retrofit the delays on my old I150 hardware and reloads...I wonder.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Mark,

Yes, the delay closures are interchangeable with the original plugged closure. One item though, you need to put in the forward snap ring then insert the delay closure from the aft end as the snap ring will not compress around an installed delay closure.

All the delays were very consistent and had real nice smoke.

Paul Holmes TMT Secretary

Hey TMT secretary. Why are USR HYBRIDS not approved despite submissions?

Why are USR solids banned despite being fully legal?

May I pick three?

Sales tax license Business license or county statement it is not neede din the jurisdiction. I delivered a lease and have always been able to deliver that. Not incorporated.

What do you define as "principals". Is this the technicality you are resting on for the buttfuck?

Two EX numbers are CLEARLY issues, never expire and are CLEARLY useable by me.

EX-8611103 EX-8611104

That is NOT a federal requirement. Propellant is exempt from ATF regulation. When I did submit it to you you refused it anyway!!!

Your own lawsuit against ATF admits it is not required. It is NOT, repeat NOT required. Toi demand it is a crime and you WILL be punished if you persist.

NONE of those rules ar in your charter. If you claim they are, publish it and deliver it to me, email it to me. Publish a link to your website. Show me.

If you ask for ilegal things you WILL be punished. If I provide what is legal and asked for and you still deny me you WILL be punished.

And the punishment will be just as merciless as that you have extended to me over the years. Plus some.

Jerry

P.S. Fuck you.

Jerry, Living well is the best revenge.

-dave w

Punishment I have extended to you? I've never sent you any personal correspondence, nor was I any part of the actions taken against you, take that up with other people. You flatter me by considering me the whole organization.

You ask where these requirements are published, they're easily accessible on the web site, presented as an excerpt from the Tripoli Motor Testing code published by Tom Blazanin, TMT Chair in 1996

I only have one final observation. If Tripoli, NAR and CAR are such "fools", "idiots", "criminals", why do you want to associate with us, so bad? You should be glad you're of such high moral character to not deal with us.

In fact, there was a problem when I (in my Propulsion Polymers role) applied for TRA manufacturer status. The jurisdication where I operate my business doesn't require a business license. The only thing I had was a (provincial) sales tax permit, and the provincial business name registration. Sue eventually settled for the two pieces of "proof of legitimacy".

I'm *really, really* glad that CAR has its own motor testing process now, so I don't have to deal with some of the silliness, (and, to be frank, some of the lack of professionalism I experienced trying to cert through TRA).

I received no such consideration from Sue or her successors on this very topic or others.

Favoritism.

I so agree.

Thanks for the info, Paul.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Geez, I can't imagine why TRA wouldn't bend over backwards trying to accomodate you, Jerry.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

Simple fairness and level playing field would be a start. Heck, approve whatever papers they will approve and at least tell me SPECIFICALLY what is lacking so I can address it either through channels or by having a JUDGE order them to do the right thing on a narrow issue.

Jerry

had was a (provincial) >>sales tax permit, and the provincial business name

Gee I wonder why that might be? You reckon it might have something to do with the fact that, unlike Marcus, you don't live in a province of Canada?

Not all American jurisdictions require a "business license" for every conceivable sort of business... it's a silly set of requirements, anyway - it has the appearance of being contrived to favor established corporate entities and squeeze out small operations which might simply not be in a position to supply the various "evidences of legitimacy" that TRA expects of "approved manufacturers". (Why make an issue of "legitimacy" unless there is intent that some are to be considered "illegitimate"?)

It's certainly the sort of thing that gives TRA the appearance of a "what's good for Aerotech is good for the Association" kind of attitude - or maybe it was just "let's not let Jerry in the club". (Actually, I think that was more of a motive behind the requirements that the certifying vendor of record had to be the same organization as the "actual physical manufacturer" - this seems to have been intended to squeeze out Jerry's outsourced "USR" product line - and perhaps others whose business structure was more like Jerry's than Gary's?)

It all basically feels like a contrivance to implement some good old internal favoritisms and prejudices while at the same time using it to "kiss and make up" with the NAR/NFPA faction by appearing to adopt the fundamental "Consumer Rocketry" dogma, with the Magic Religious Boundary between the Individual User and the Established Commercial Manufacturer (who alone is fit to confront the Sacred Mystery of Propellant).

-dave w

Well, after all that I gotta ask, what's the point of certifying motors?

Joel. phx

(that is, what would you th> > Jerry Irv> > >>some deleted

In a word: Insurance... mental and physical.

Motor-certifying is a false sense of warm-fuzzy to make it look like everything possible is being done to prevent anything that might draw upon that insurance.

Insurance won't supply if there are no guidlines; it would be financial suicide in these sue-happy days.

At least that is where it starts... then mix in management styles/personalities, fear of the unknown, the new people to the group verses the seasoned ones.

Often it is the seasoned ones fearing what that "person over there" is attempting to do, and sometimes cannot or will not allow for the learning process without installing too much bubble/safety net/red tape.

Funny thing is, insurance itself is a false sense of warm-fuzzy too. Making a claim on insurance causes more stress than the incident causing the claim. Insurance is one funny business that is no fun.

So you eventully end up somewhere between the extremes of the plastic-bubble world where you are protected from everything and stagnate while experiencing nothing (some would call that death), or the live and let live/learn world with no controls where you could lose your life (or the lives of others) if one or many happen(s) to set the right chain of events in motion. With the first extreme everyone sues everyone for even scratching their bubble. With the second extreme everyone is forced to deal with not only their own consequences, but quite often the consequences from others too.

There is too much that can be said on the subject. I was probably better off leaving it at the one word, and will be sorry in the morning for even opening my... er... fingers.

~Duane Phillips.

some deleted

Jerry, I've always agreed with you that you got the shaft years ago, but you aren't going to win over anyone by continuing to throw Molatov cocktails at the new kids. Paul wasn't responsible for what happened years ago, don't blame him. He told you what you need to do to legally certify your motors. End of discussion.

Mark Simpson NAR 71503 Level II God Bless our peacekeepers

No he told us all what TRA rules (no matter how illegal) ask for. The rules themselves are broken and need to be fixed to synch with the law and common industry practice.

The fact that SEVERAL legal, shipping motor lines cannot get TRA certified shows you there is CERTAINLY a problem and it is NOT with the vendors, but with TRA.

In short it is NOT just me!

Jerry

The "point" of certification is to be able to fly those motors at NAR and TRA group launches. The minute you have indy launches with indy insurance like from ieas.org or others there is no point at all.

Even NFPA codes make exceptions for "industrial" motors so that makes all indy launches users of industrial motors.

Jerry

Ah, I was not aware of that.