Skippy bringing down HPR

You're welcome :)

Threats of physical violence are so stupid ... and yes Skippy (you mean Jerry Irvine right?) is giving all of rocketry a bad name in the eyes of law enforcement.

Do you actually think that given Irvine's actions, the BATF decided to lax their policing and enforcement of manufactures and distributors of rocket motors? I think not ... thanks Jerry! :)

Have you forgotten your claim to be the programmer who wrote the thing? Remember back when you posted the source code here with "copyright 1983 by Jerry Irvine" on it, after you removed "copyright 1984 by Charles E. Rogers".. And yet you would have us believe you sat around for YEARS waiting for someone else to do a modification so you could "save files" and do looping runs? Don't forget the spooky embedded 'fingerprints' and 'ghosts'.

Correct. By design. It took me two days to figure out that you were the problem in that co-operative marketing venture and I would be playing the schlemiel to do any mods strictly for in-house use by Calfornia Rocketry. Of course, if you had really been even a junior-league programmer you would have done them yourself in about three days.

As I recall, you annoyed me by threatening to sue me for some serious amount of money and that threat was to persist for your entire life plus 30 years or some such. Have you withdrawn that threat, or is it still in the stack along with the never-expiring threats to sue dozens of other people and businesses?

co-wrote.

Fred I put it on in the first place, not Chuck. Ask him. That applied only to a particular version (blessed). My preceeding copyright should technically have also been in there but I was not versed in great detail in copyright procedures at the time. The preceeding versions and postceeding versions (on my thread of work, I assume the work you did you eliminated my name, or failed to use it, entirely at some point to further your alleged theft of my work) were written as copyright Jerry Irvine. But in fact the programs are a co-authorship of Jerry Irvine and Charles E Rogers.

I suspect the added work you have added are also a co-authorship but I do not know how it works legally since you did so with the consent of one co-author but at the exclusion of another. I would guess a judge would assign relative weight and divide proceeds accordingly.

As you know those proceeds would pay for about one day's of lawyers fighting it, or less.

Find out somewhere other than rmr.

From an intermediate and unreleased version you wrote a big portion of and put ONLY a copyright for Charles E Rogers, here are fingerprints of my authorship from prior versions:

ALT301Y.bas

300 P$=" Run ALT3 version or Jerry version? ":D$="A"

6100 WK$=" .....Thanks for flying U.S. Rockets !......."

The "Jerry" version was a tongue in cheek reference to running a rocket with two stages. One would think we would just say that, eh? :)

Imagine this. Prior to my saying, hey I want to run 2 stage rockets, it ran single stage rockets. And many, many other features. Chuck did the aero and math. I did the "logic" and "features" and that explains why it is spaghetti code :) And why it is still useful today for running a wide variety of rockets. Yours is prettier. Congrats. But "yours" is technically "ours".

There is no reason why we cannot just get along Fred. You have to want to.

Jerry

The fact that "Jerry" and "U.S. Rockets" appears there indicates nothing with respect to authorship. ALT was shipped as a Calfornia Rocketry advertised product and shipped with USR kit and motor data it's not surprising that those items were in there. I never disputed that. Now you think that those words indicate something about authorship. They do not. What is convincing is the ISBN and the copyright notice published in Calfornia Rocketry.

You live in a mentally over-ozoned, Clintonesque, dreamland where everything is possible. You appear to have less of a moral compass than one would assume possessed of a North Korean intelligence officer. Since the early

80's, from a promising start, your public life appears to be playing out a slow-motion crash. Not that it hasn't been a little entertaining to some at times.

As long as you continue to maintain the egotistical fairytale of authorship and that you're going to be getting some kind of revenues from Rogers Aeroscience in re ALT, there's no detectable level of 'wanting to get along' on my part. But, hey, whatever.

So we have Chuck Rogers, who has a proven record about lying about motor certifications claiming copyright of code vs Jerry Irvine. It's hard to decide who is least believable. But I think it's Chuck.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

That's funny!

And incidentally true.

And Fred Brennion is his surrogate!

I am only claiming co-authorship. He is claiming sole authorship. That alone is a smoking gun of sorts. Fred claims "marketing arrangement" but leaves out that as a result of the "co-authorship" Jerry would do the manufacturing and fulfillment and Chuck the advertising and promotion and it was estimated it would be a near financial wash. We were about right. The goal was to get the softwre out to rocketeers. For several years that goal was actually achieved with the Chuck and Jerry show. Then Fred Brennion added an abusive security key to "protect his valuable work".

So much for a co-op!

Good times down the drain.

Then Chuckipoo flew his 25000 foot altitude record at a Lucerne launch with an FAA waiver that never exceeded 15000 feet. Nobody would have been the wiser, but Chuckipoo decided he had to make allegations I "never filed for any FAA waivers", which we all now know to not be true. When confronted with it he refused me a hearing at Tripoli and when confronted in 8-2001 the entirety of the Tripoli corporation lost "every copy" of the original report and letter claiming this crap. But they hauled Kenny in front of their tribunal to start the DOT madness.

They are fixated. Chuck Rogers is fixated.

The motive is cover-up. The motive is personal revenge.

The evidence is all around us.

Just ask Tripoli to produce a true and correct copy of the "Morrow Report" from 3-92 and the accompanying letter removing me from TRA. YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD RETAIN A COPY OF A DOCUMENT FROM SUCH A PROUD MOMENT IN THEIR LIVES. It stated my refund check was attached. Demand to see a copy of that check. Never existed.

The lies are profuse.

Just like many anon posters here Rogers just throws shit at the wall till something sticks. With DOT he got lucky. But now you know where the shit came from. The mysterious "third party" that was not the carrier, the shipper or the recipient, who contacted the DOT.

Jerry

Only to your delusional mind.

If you had problems with ONE business partner, it might be possible for folks to believe that you were an innocent victim. But you've had problems with EVERYONE who's ever had the misfortune of doing business with you. That's no coincidence, that's evidence of your toxic personality.

I noticed you inserted the words "true and correct" in there, so that if someone did produce the report you could claim it's not the real thing.

Yeah, to the tune of $40 grand.

It wasn't a "third party" who shipped unclassified hazmat deceptively labeled as "model aircraft parts".

Merely "claiming" a copyright of code? Jerry published the code in his own magazine and it carried a "copyright 1984 by Charles E. Rogers", but you're willing to believe that this was really Jerry's work? With confused thought processes like that you better get out of rocketry before you hurt yourself.

Hahahaha. Step away from the keyboard, Bob. Go to the medicine cabinet and start taking stuff.

Jerry, you didn't understand the technical aspects of the material in ALT and CD. It's Chuck's work. That's why it was copyrighted in his name. Let go of the fiction that you were a co-author. The rest of the world already has. It is repeating pattern that you claim credit for other's work. All it takes is you having a discussion with someone for you to later claim partial credit. Boy, how many times have we heard this one?

Since your expertise was in running a magazine and making motors, not in aerodynamics or software, it's not surprising that you did not realize that Chuck's specialized knowledge was marketable and worth protecting.

As a person with no ethics whatoever, I would think you'd have a grasp of how quickly a one-product part-time business could be destroyed by hoping that everybody would pay for something when they can simply get it for free by getting a copy from a friend and then passing around copies like a plate of cookies. When ads cost hundreds of dollars, if that sounds like a good business plan to you, then that would explain your successive failures. And also why you are content to spend your life hanging around on RMR and preaching and arguing over everything and constantly reinventing the distant past instead of having time for a normal life.

(snipped balance of tiresome Jerry propaganda)

No *I* copyrighted anything that lists chucks name for a particular VERSION of the program. In the case of the magazine it had my global copyright. In the case of the software it had my prior copyright whether each permutation lists it or not. In the case of published discs or listings where I am the publisher I have the global copyright in addition to the prior comments.

In the case of your follow-on work it is clearly derivitive work.

Huh? I wrote the database program in BASIC (1978-81 On a Xerox 820 CP/M BTW :) ) that CRm ran on and used that expertise when helping Chuck out with his and my software program. ALT.

Huh? I am the one who copyrighted different versions of the programs, not Chuck. I am the one who assigned ISBN numbers, not Chuck. I am the one who listed them in Books in Print, not Chuck.

Get a friggin life Fred.

You are so fixated on being adversarial you do not know when to stop kicking a gift horse in the balls.

But people were paying. People have ethics. They do not need a police state or an encryped key to force it on them.

Snip nothing.

Interesting and relevant reply to someone who comments about motor certs. My 10 year old kid was more mature than this. No wonder RMR is down the tube. Larry Lobdell Jr.

Fred Brennion is leading the way.

One thing he was right about. I have had some really crappy partners in the past.

Jerry

Skippy says: " Just ask Tripoli to produce a true and correct copy of the "Morrow Report" from 3-92 and the accompanying letter removing me from TRA. YOU

You miss the point. They threw out the garbage then again threw out the garbage. You are looking for 12 year old documents and then claim someone else is fixated. There probably are no documents from your removal. It was as simple as a verbal "All in favor" I (everyone in the room and 50 states). All opposed (crickets). Done. And we further vote that Jerry be banned to the RMR forum to continually post over and over about his self inflicted troubles. If he stops posting he will be in contempt of the tribunal and will be fined. Ain't life grand. about 40 grand.

Now Jerome, breath deeply ... we talked about this, remember? When the delusions start to set in, just breath deeply and take that prozac pill I suggested.

Now we all know how you simply took rocket code, changed the variables, and then called it your own creation ... but those days are over Jerome. Now we know better than to do stuff like that. Its bad to trake credit for other people's hard work Jerome ... you know better.

During our next session, I want to focus more on your childhood and the problems there in. I believe we can beat this self-destructive spiral you are in Jerome. Till Tuesday.

Nope. They bothered to create a fraudulent document!!

They couldn't keep it simple!! :) :) :)

Jerry

Why don't you post a copy of this "fraudulent" document? You do have a copy of it, don't you?

Gotta keep the reality secret in case they ever produce a "version".

Lord knows they would never dare produce the real deal!!!