You know, I spent the day with Jerry today and he was a genuinely nice guy and a good conversationalist. For the life of me, I can't understand the vitriol that is spewed out on this guy. I've dealt with him off and on for almost eight years and I've never been given a single cause to despise him. Sure, he does say some controversial things from time to time, but hey, if one doesn't then one isn't living. The personal attacks I've read over the last year indicate that the rhetoric is increasing and becoming increasingly mean spirited. When is it going to stop? Lets talk rockets and rocket tech. That's what we all like to do right? Or is it?
If you don't want people talking about Jerry, why did you bring it up, and (by the title of your post) ask people to talk about him some more? For that matter, why not ask Jerry why he insists on turning EVERY topic into another anti-TRA/NAR rant?
C'mon now, Ray, be fair. Jerry doesn't hijack every post. In fact, I bet he doesn't even hijack non-rocketry related posts. Why, just the other day, I posted a quick note about a school bus driver demonstrating to kids how air brakes work, and...
Of course you would agree. Jerry did not attempt to involve you or your rocketry group in an illegal scam, to commerce in regulated hazmat, using fraudulent classification and shipping paperwork...
You missed my point. What I would like is for people to settle down and become civil again. The NG has become mean and way off topic. I asked the question not to examine JI, but to cause us to examin ourselves and what it is we want to accomplish. Are we about villification or or the sport of rocketry?
The simple question is: If you truly dislike and have no respect for the man, why even acknowledge he exists? If I felt as strongly as some here do, I would simply killfile him and move on to rocket posts. If I felt an individual was placing another at legal risk, I would point it out privately to them. Then allow them to make the decision which they want to live with.
The constant barrage of uncivil behavior of recent, shows a sizeable portion of the rocketry community who post here are not very nice people.
" STILL waiting for the wording from TRA/NAR saying that I can launch a P
At a non TRA/NAR event what you launch is up to you. They don't have to release a statement giving you the ok. We fly at a private field with a waiver only completely uninsured and as a non TRA/NAR event. P motors welcome. Don't be so scared. Go fly.
It goes both ways. I've stated many times that if Jerry takes certain actions, as a businessman, that he is the one responsble (good or bad) for the results. I've also stated that I don't agree with some of the NAR/TRA (mostly TRA) actions against Jerry. But, just as I mentioned in this thread, the fact that Jerry takes every single topic on this newsgroup and tries to twist it into an anti- NAR/TRA rant contributes AT LEAST as much to the general atmosphere as those who actually hate Jerry's guts (for whatever reason).
The problem is, I don't see any of that changing. It appears that Jerry will continue to stroll through the world dealing with it on his own terms, regardless of 'reality', and that those who have been wronged by him (either real or imagined) will continue to bait/castigate him.
I've got to admit, though, that having a 'Jerry' in any hobby can actually serve a useful purpose -- he becomes a lightning rod for certain types of comments, and a focal point for change because/in spite of his actions. About 20 years ago, I was in a completely different type of hobby group that had a 'Jerry' in it. As long as 'Jerry' was active, that particular group remained active (there were pro/anti factions, etc.). Once 'Jerry' left the hobby (personal problems/burnout/legal problems), the group fell apart within a couple of years.
I'm not suggesting (remotely) that any part of rocketry would fall apart if Jerry suddenly quit, but I do believe that he serves a useful purpose in this hobby, even though he can be a pain in the butt sometimes. After all, there are many on this group I could name () who not only are royal pains, but don't contribute anything (technical expertise, product, etc.) to the hobby.
I've really tried to be reasonable. Frustrated yes, and maybe it shows in some of my posts. Possibly that is why the whole place has become so venomous.
I originally came here looking for assistance when I first started back into the hobby If I have fallen into the hate trap, then to anybody I have attacked, I apologize. Hell the whole group here could get together and sing Proud Mary on my front lawn and I would not know who they are. Simple Usenet postings are not enough for me to determine whether or not I like/dislike any of you.
I think I'll just drop this scene for a while as I'm not sure I am doing any good or if I am gaining any benefit.
damn Reece... It appears that JI's "reality distortion field" is as good as Steven Job's is..... I have no doubt that JI in person can come across as a charming and nice indivdual, most psychopaths can and do, witness Ted Bundy.....
I don't hate JI per se, I just got tired of sitting here for 2 years and listening to his insincerity about his motor problems and his rhetoric towards the NAR/TRA.....calling people names.....
I guess "the straw that broke the camels back" so to speak on my part, was this recent episode of his shipping motors as non hazmat "model aircraft parts"... This at a time when we just don't need people who won't follow the rules and regulations and yes, even laws of the land..... This just showed me that JI has only disrespect for the laws......
It just shows very bad judgment on JI's part and that seems to be his major character flaw....
I still wonder if the State of California is aware he "exported" motors without a valid CA State Exporters license.....
Its a shame actually because history will remember JI as a malcontent with questionable ethics instead of his perhaps rightful place as the so called father of HPR.............
Spent two days at NSL. Great launch. Big turnout and a lot of flights. Day three is going on right now with some nice flights planned . The AARG, NHRC and NHRA clubs did a great job putting on a national event. Vendors from all over the country. Supplies were plentiful. Skidmark M flights, hybrids, and many airstart projects highlighted the first two days. An Austin area scout troop came out and provided food and drinks for two days doing a great job delivering food up and down the flight lines. What a great time and strong showing for the hobby.
Jerry's constant anti-TRA/NAR rants, his "poor victimized Jerry" routine, and his casting blame on everyone but himself does harm to the hobby. Jerry loves convincing naive newcomers that TRA/NAR Is the devil. Someone has to counter that with the facts to keep newbies from getting suckered. We don't need anymore Izzies.
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