Will Jerry make a deal with Feds and try to bust other rocketeers?

"...Manufacturers are NOT members.

Imposing a LEMP requirement that does NOT exist with ATF or NFPA is abusive...."

Right on count 1. However, nothing in the NAR/TRA rules prevent anybody from manufacturing a motor and selling to someone who is not a member and/or does not care what the organization thinks.

On count 2 - LEMP? I'm not sure where that fits in the discussion. I suspect the M is for Manufacturer. Again, these are private organizations. They have the privilege of deciding how and with whom to do business. If they want a mfr to paint their toenails pink, they can do so. The only recourse is if enough members vote to change the leadership or if quit and the organization folds.

Just as a matter of record, setting everything else aside, why are you opposed to agreeing to their rules, getting the reportedly good motors you designed into production and available to fly? I would think that if you did that, made a serious dent in the motor supply gap, you'd have people lining up to support your efforts to change things. Instead, you come off a bit toward, "If I can't do it my way, I won't do it at all"

I'd rather see you be able to help make flying easier.

selling/shipping

The product line relies on LE*P not being required at any level.

Period.

Exactly as 27 CFR does state Exactly as NFPA-1127 does state

Jerry

How so?

I am curious as to the business model that depends on an absence of regulation.

I can only think of two scenarios

(1) Something currently deemed by an authoritative body as illegal.

(2) Somebody running a business on a recklessly thin margin.

I do hope you accept I am not "trolling" I am simply trying to understand.

I'm sorry Woody, I'm tired of reading the BS.

Call the ATF and ask if a permit is required for commercial manufacturer of propellant. Is that too much to ask of someone guessing what the rules are?

Joel. phx

Seems you're saying that a "commercial manufacturer" of what is classified as a LE doesn't not require permits!

Now that's what I REALLY call BS! You're really turned into a Troll there Joel.....

No, that's not what I'm saying. Here, how about I phrase it this way. Whatever you think a permit is required for, call the ATF and ask if that is true.

Is that too hard to understand?

Sure I'm trolling, got any facts?

Call the Public Safety Branch at 202 - 927 - 2310

The judge said that exemptions at 55.141 apply to our rocket motors. Section 55.141 (a) begins: General. This part shall not apply with respect to..." (and then enumerates the various exempted circumstances).

The exemption relieves us from the ENTIRE burden of compliance to all regulations of "part 55", not just from only those parts dealing with user permits. Also in part 55 are to be found requirements for manufacture, storage, etc., and the definition of "explosive materials" (in section 55.11) that invokes the "List of Explosive Materials provided for in section 55.23". That means that BATF can "list" things as "explosive" all they want, but that doesn't act to bring PAD's within the definition of "Explosive Materials" - neither their creation and distribution (whether or not considered "commercial"), nor their acquisition, storage and use, are subject to Part 55.

What part of "this part shall not apply to..." are you having such trouble understanding?

Where does is "commercial manufacturer of what is classified as a LE" excluded from the exemption?

-dave w

I told you so.

Didn't th> DOT contacted Ken; Ken did not contact DOT. Ken believed Jerry, when

Why would Ken have needed to be "saved ... from DOT's wrath" if he wasn't shipping the motors to anyone? Why did DOT contact him?

My gut hunch is that Jerry is far from the only one who might be accused of "leaving out pieces of the story" here... there's something that doesn't quite add up, in what I've seen so far, and can't be easily written off as "just some kind of Jerry cover-up" or something either.

-dave w

Point taken, Flashlights left on are great ignitors.

I can't wait for my L3; I'll do it at night. 5,4,3,2,1- Flashlight lights up.

Lol, you fool.

If Jerry had met the TMT requirements, he woudln't have gotten that $40k fine. Maybe Jerry should reconsider getting his motors certified.

Point.

Yep, how can I debate such logic. After all, according to you and your supporter/s, I'm just a moron and copsucker.

Fred

Fred, I was trying to ask a civil question here... since DOT appears to have already squeezed out whatever "enforcement proceedings" might be had from the situation, you've got no more reason to let "not wanting to interfere with a Government Investigation" stand in the way if you have additional pieces of the story that you're able to tell.

Right now I'm not trying to "troll" anybody or even "take sides" - I'm just trying to piece the story together.

-dave w

I'm sorry, but, "Right now I'm not trying to troll anybody", LOFL... "Right now", other than what is already available in the "enforcement proceedings" document, I'm not conformable the, "not wanting to interfere with a Government investigation" is still not an issue. Are you providing me legal counsel?? In any case, I'm sure Jerry can provide you with all the additional "pieces of the story", in detail. Jerry has indicated, in at least one posting that this issue is not finished; not sure what he was insinuating, but maybe he can provide those "pieces of the story".

Fred

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wrong, NAR and TRA are PUBLIC organizations!!!!!!!!!!!! And they can, through NFPA, create state law. Once I would like to see PUBLIC organizations follow what they create..

Whole bunch of text deleted.....

Man sometimes I wonder.... Thanks for your time

Rich

Instead of "telliing more stories" I would rather see him respond substantively to the questions asked of HIM with something other than "how can I debate that"?

Jerry

Here's a question for you, jerry. What was your intent, when you labeled the package, "model aircraft parts"?

Answer that question.

What was the purpose of labeling the package, "model aircraft parts"?

Replying to yourself about a general claim with no specifics whatsoever? How droll.