Wow, I am confused on the regs, help a BABAR?

I've been out of the HPR scene for close to 5 years and I have been wanting to get back into it. I've heard of the new regulations but I don't fully understand them. When I flew HPR, all I needed was a LEUP and have an ATF agent come to my house ask me a few questions. I think it cost me like $40?

Now, all I want to do is be in compliance with all state/local/federal regulations (if that's possible) so I can build and launch some rockets. I would like to have the option to buy and store some motors if it is not cost prohibiting. At the very least, I would like to be able to purchase motors at a launch.

From what I've read, to be able to buy motors at a launch, I need to apply for a LEUP for the now economical $100, and be finger-printed and interviewed by the ATF (which is ATFE now?).

If I want to purchase and store motors, I need a LEUP and a type 4 storage magazine and the finger-printing and the ATFE interview and the record keeping and be subject to inspections for compliance and ???

Gawd, this got awefully complicated. I've read some of the regs and am not sure what I need to do. I've been on ROL and read their info page (that appears to be outdated?).

Can someone explain to me what I need to do?

I live in PA, am over 18 (way over), a US citizen. What's the first step?

Thanks for reading this born-again born-again rocketeer's ramblings...

Reply to
Tim
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Let's be very clear. There are no new regulations for user. The current regs have been in place 8+ years.

Tripoli has changed to the gross and extreme negative. NAR has changed to the gross and extreme negativ. But ATF and DOT have not changed.

It's $200 now and NOT needed for rockets.

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Additions welcome.

Avoid TRA and NAR and it is as simple as falling off a log.

CITE 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 verbatim to every person, group, club, agent, or agency that tells you the CRAP above. It is FALSE.

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Back then I was told I needed a LEUP, so I got one. Are you telling me I didn't need one then (based on your comment below)?

Could you explain this to me using little words so I can understand?

So I can order motors from another state and have then shipped with no hassle? What are the requirements for purchasing HPR motors in or out of state? NAR/TRA membership? Isn't that requirement in some CFR, NPF, WTF or whatever?

Interesting reading... still deciphering some of it.

I've fallen from a few logs in my day and it really is simple, can flying HPR be that simple as well?

Unfortunately, the only places I can fly is at an NAR club sanctioned site. So I joined the NAR but am hesitant to join TRA again. After reading all of the crap that TRA has been doing lately, I don't want to support that kind of behaviour.

Nice to see that you're keeping the fires going after all these years Jerry. I used to read rmr long ago and enjoyed your comments then as I do now. I would love to try some of your motors someday.

Please everyone, be gentle, I feel that I am starting over in this hobby and some of my comments/questions may be quite stupid and common knowledge among you here. There are only so many hours in the day to be reading rmr and searching the web...

So what you're telling me is that I need to do nothing. I don't need a LEUP for usage and/or storage nor do I need a magazine for storage.

Thanks again,

-tz

Reply to
Tim

YES. And NOT based on my "comment below". Based on the LAW 27 CFR

55.141-a-8 then and 555.141-a-8 now. AND CONFIRMED IN THE ORANGE BOOK (THE CRIB NOTES OF THE ATF).

NAR and TRA REQUIRE ATF PERMITS BY INTERNAL CLUB POLICY for manufacturers, vendors, consumers, NOT required by LAW and are told are NOT required by THEIR $300,000 lawyers hired by NAR and TRA. Is that simnple enough for you????

A simple test follows: ARE NAR AND TRA TOTAL SUICIDAL MORONS?

IF you can find a vendor NOT blackballed or coerced by TRA or NAR. These vendors do NOT include: AT, AMW, CTI.

  1. You must be breathing.
  2. You must prove you are over 21 or someone in the household is over 21.
  3. You do not reside in California.
  4. You intend to use the motors for the "purposes intended".

END.

To DISCHARGE, IF over 113g (240ns) propellant per flight then FAA waiver. (free)

END.

Dozens of people here LIE to you about variances to that and STILL sleep at night. They have NO compunction, ethics, or desire for freedoms still remaining in law.

Jerry Irvine told you so.

While avoiding TRA and NAR like the PLAGUE, yes, else, NO WAY!!!

False. Fly same site different day, or get off your ass and find a site like THEY DID.

Good plan.

Show me.

Jerry

Zero so far!

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Jerry, what do you suggest folks do if this cite fails to persuade ATF?

Reply to
RayDunakin

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Let'sbe very clear.

EVERY time it has been persistemtly CITED and ADVOCATED the jack-booted thugs have deferred to the law. IT IS THEIR DUTY.

Blink and they have your ass. NEVER blink.

If you happen to be the VERY first case of them NOT BLINKING first, do not VIOLATE A POLICE ORDER. That is a separate crime.

Withdraw your application on the basis the police order is itself illegal then proivide proof to NAR's attorneys and judge.

Jerry

Never give up, never surrender.

Never, Never, Never.

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant."

- John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873), "On Liberty", 1859

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

- Edmund Burke

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Yeah like I trust a word you say Jerry.

Reply to
Nozzlehead

I assume you do not, and act accordingly to your own peril.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

Better that than 10 years and $10,000. I don't trust your advice one bit.

Reply to
Nozzlehead

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