Ok, Does this mean we are back to EZ Access?
Yes or No
Ok, Does this mean we are back to EZ Access?
Yes or No
The simpler question is really, "Does this apply to reload kits, Yes or No", as some will say that EZA never went away!
why can't the NAR/TRA just issue a joint position paper for some of our questions? while the cuurent court decision has cleared up alot it also has just engendered even more confusion and uncertaunity on the hobby too.
All I know for sure is that fully assembled motors are for the moment considered PADS abd therfore are exmept for the explosives regulations....
Would it be too much to ask the NAR/TRA to define/interpret what that does or deosn't mean?
As far as I am aware there still is NO 62.5 gram limit since NPRM 968 isn't law YET, so that would seem to mean that any fully assembled motor of any size, EZA or not is right now considered a PAD....and therefore exempt.....
The gray an fuzzy area is how this effects the status of RMS... and the PRO38... Perhaps they will be forthcoming soon and provide us with information on what their lawyers say about there products. Gary/Anthony, et al do you hear me?
And the 62.5g limit in NPRM968 is moot in the case of items which are subject to the broader PAD exemption.
I think we may have heard all we will hear, after all the money spent on lawyers. "Fully assembled rocket motors" is the key phrase. Not "parts you can use to make a "fully assembled rocket motor". The NAR/TRA says "ya, reloads should be ok", and someone gets busted by the BATFE for a reload kit, they would be legally involved in the "situation".
I guess that BOD/BOT thinks at "Fully Assembled Rocket Motor" is clear enough for most to take guidance, but based on what I've seen posted lately, I'd guess that next time, the BOD/BOT will need to draw pictures!
This ruling was all we got, and the BOD/BOT are trying to put it in the best light (who can blame them!), but in reality, don't mean much. (I'm not only a "glass is half empty" type, but would get out a ruler and say "it's 1/16" more than half empty, so not even half!") :)
Depends on what a PAD is! Per the OFFICIAL statement from NAR/TRA, PAD only applies to "fully assembled rocket motors".. Not to buying the parts to assemble one!
Also, if you read the NRPM968, it specifically refers to "rocket motors", so NPRM968 does still have a VERY real impact.
Thanks for nothing!
Nailguns are PADs, nailgun cartridges are not. Yet both are exempt.
Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting from your posts on this. :)
Let sleeping dogs sleep.
The 'rule' is subject to interpretation in many areas... let your conscious be your guide.
If you WANT more definitions, rules, and regulations... then all you have to do is ask for them... many facets of our Hobby and our Government will be only too happy to oblige.
Me... I'm happy to self-regulate my activities in accordance with existing laws and my interpretation of them.
Nail guns are a "Propellant Activated Industrial Tool".. Not the same thing, based on what others have responded to you with this same comparison on atleast two other forums.
Also, OUR OWN BOD/BOT says "fully assembled rocket motor".. Not the courts, nor the BATFE.
If I hand you a J550 reload kit.. Just the kit. No casing. Can you tell me how that is a "fully assembled rocket motor"?
Ok, now I hand you a case with closures. That's in your right hand, and the bag' grains is in your left. Can you tell me how that is a "fully assembled rocket motor"?
I'd LOVE to hear how you think this fit's into the BOD/BOT's own release where it specifically referenced "fully assembled rocket motors"
But the reality, is that the "bag'o grains" is not a "fully assembled rocket motor", and is still under the "AFT" eyes.
Please, don't even mention "intent" of creating a "fully assembled rocket motor", as the BOD/BOT would have used these words in their release.
While I'm a "the glass is 1/16" more than half empty guy - I measured it", Ray, you seem to be a "but even though the glass is half full, if we think good things, it will soon overflow" guy!
Remember "fully assembled rocket motor" came from our own BOD/BOT in an official announcement! These were the people who wanted the announcement to be seen in the best possible light by members! If they could have included reloads, they would have!
Now the thing that's really screwy, is if you take that BATFE regulated "bag'o grains", and the case and closures, and assemble the motor, you then have a "fully assembled rocket motor" that the BATFE can't touch!
You still need to play by the BATFE rules to get the "bag'o grains" for the J550......
NAIL GUN / NAIL GUN cartridge example is PERFECT... "When used as intended theses items and associated materials are exempt from regulation" this is the spirit and intent of the law.
I believe we should look at it just that way.. fly rockets and have fun......
As for the BATFE, they are probably not happy campers about now.. and will no doubt return with some more rules for us to deal with...
In my eyes the NAR/ TRA legal team has done well.. along with the rocketry community to bring us this far...
I'm going to send some $$ to the legal fund, I think this is battle won but the war is not quite over...... I hope many of us send a few $$$
I expect the outcome to be significant relief for our hobby over the coming months.... Between the legal team and S.724 I'd say we are looking good......
I look forward to seeing many of you at the range......
MOTOR assemblers wanted ?????? going to be a GREAT flying season........
Ah yes.. the perfect example where the TRA/NAR BOD/BOT needs to use pictures then next time the release a statement.
What part of "fully assembled rocket motor" confuses you there bobby? (this was in the statement from "us" and not "them"!). Not parts, but "fully assembled rocket motor".
Think of it this way, your nail gun is your rocket. The " Pdevice" that propels the nail is the motor. This consists of a case, a charge, and some sort of ignition device. (sound familiar?)
What the law allows, is that you can buy these "fully assembled" devices to propel the nail into the nailing surface. It does NOT allow you to buy parts to make said "Pdevice".
"Hey, Bubba, I want 100lb of BP so that I can assemble new charges (motors) that I can fire in my nail gun" What the heck is an LEUP? Was that what I got from you sister last time we went out? Heck, did it itch!" :)
However I suspect both NAR and TRA will take this stance to assure HPR continues to wither on the vine.
Never listen to Jerry Irvine and live the WRITTEN EXEMPTION lifestyle!!27 CFR 555.11, Propellant Actuated Device. Any tool or special mechanized device or gas generator system which is actuated by a propellant or which releases and directs work through a propellant charge.
"ANY OR OR OR"
many facets of our Hobby and our Government will be
NAR/TRA are officially morons.
Maybe not the same thing as far as terminology, but the exemption is the same, isn't it? Both PADs and PAITs are exempt, right? And in both cases, the cartridges are also exempt, right?
Yes, they specifically said that "fully assembled rocket motors" are PADs. So what? That doesn't mean that reload kits can't be treated the same as cartridges for PAITs/PADs.
Nope. It's a "cartridge" for loading an exempt PAD.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Even by the ATF's own definitions, nailgun CARTRIDGES are not PAD/PAITs. The TOOL they go into is. Yet both the tool and the cartridge are exempt.
Nailgun = PAIT = Rocket motor = PAD Cartridge = Reload kit Nail = Rocket
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