Meet the Fokkers! -- Fokker DVIII

Nice model. Too bad he used the wildly inaccurate kit lozenge. Ruined a very nice build.

Dan

as long as the builder is happy with the results what difference does it make looks like an excellent job to me

Daryl, you have just stated what I believe to be the true essence of modeling!! .

Reminds me of something (there he goes again! ;~p ) that happened when I was stationed in South Carolina. A kid (a young man in his early 20s, actually) came to a couple of our IPMS chapter meetings and expressed lots of interest in modeling but never brought a model in. Our club, a brand new IPMS chapter that a couple fellow Air Force members and I started that grew into the local community, co-sponsored a model contest with another larger and established IPMS club in a nearby city. At each of the couple chapter meeting preceding the contest, we all encouraged this young fellow to build something and bring it to the contest, which he did. He did a very nice out-of-the-box job, decals and all - excellent workmanship - and he was understandably proud of the results.

One of the members of our sister IPMS club came up to him and looked at his model (I was standing nearby and heard the entire exchange), and said something like "Yeah, it's OK but the decals are the wrong shade, there should be a squadron badge here, etc, etc. The kid had good talent as a builder. He just was not an "expert" on the aircraft, didn't have reams of references, and didn't know the fit decals were incorrect; he just enjoyed building the aircraft and wanted to show his handiwork off. I could see in the kid's eyes that the kid was hurt by the comments of this other self-professed expert. I told him not to worry about it and that I thought he did a great job on the kit (I also took the self-professed" expert aside once he had walked away from the kid and told him he was out of line).

I came back around the table later when we were judging the contest and his aircraft was no longer on the table. I later went looking for the kit and he was not around. I asked one of the other guys where he went and he told me the kid had picked his model up off the table and left. I found the model in a trash can outside the back door to the parking lot and the kid never showed up at another club meeting or function again.

My point: Let's remember that not everyone is an expert on everything. or even one particular aircraft, tank, etc, etc. Accuracy is important to some people but many people get plenty of enjoyment by just building a kit and we should not belittle their efforts or expect everyone to conform to our personal standards.

Note: The XXX marks, replacing the identity of the original poster were put there by me to disguise his identity as much as possible. Further, I am deliberately vague about the identity of the know-it-all modeler (he's since passed away) and the subject clubs. I have no desire to embarrass anyone, I just wanted to express my view on this subject.

So where are all of your absolutely perfect builds available for viewing?

As did I. I said it was a very nice build, but spoiled by the wrong lozenge. It doesn't take anymore effort to use the right decals than it does to use the wrong ones. How else will people get to be better builders if constructive criticism isn't offered by others?

Dan

Long story snipped...

everything. or

Nobody was belittled. Plenty of praised was offered. I only pointed out the fact that the lozenge is exceptionally inaccurate and in my opinion it ruined the build. I didn't say the model was crap, just the end result could have been more accurate. How difficult is that to understand. It was offered as constructive criticism.

Dan

Answered off list...

Dan

Why not put your answer on list. I'm sure we would lile to see your perfect (or not perfict) builds. Pete

yeah.

No problem. Try here:

And here:

If you'd like bigger and sharper pictures, e-mail me and I'll send some. You'll note my D.VIII has the correct color lozenge.

Dan

you do nice stuff. i think you were harsh in calling his model "ruined". inaccurate would have been correct.

Thanks and your statement is fair enough. WWI is my main area of interest so I probably take it a little more seriously than I should, but I was being honest in how I felt.

Dan

it's ok. i have been known to be overly harsh at times, so i hoped you would understand. after all, he can correct a mistake. and the build was sweet. we's cool.

I don't recall you suggesting where to get better decals from. That would be a damn sight more constructive.

Nick

Yeah, right. I suspect the responses would have been equally indignant had I said, "Too bad he didn't use the correct lozenge from Pegasus, Eagle Strike or Americal Griffon." Way too thin skinned. If you don't want opinions, don't ask people to look at your work.

Dan

I don't know about others, Dan but not thin-skinned at all. I was just saying that your "constructive criticism" it might have been worder a bit more "constructively" and less smug and arrogant sounding; that's all.

The type of comment you made is, admittedly a bit of a "hot button" issue to me since I've seen cutting arrogantly negative comments about someone's model actually turn at least one promising modeler away from the hobby and a club. I guess you might just take this as constructive criticism from me on a better way to offer constructive criticism.

Bill Woodier wrote: I guess you might just take this as constructive criticism from me on

Hi Bill,

Agreed as above and noted. I did send this information to Michael regarding my comments:

"Michael,

You need to read my posts again. I stated several times that your build was very well done. All I pointed out was that the lozenge was nowhere near being right. That for me ruined the authenticity of the model, but it didn't diminish the quality of the build. Your assumption that there were seasonal or theater variations in lozenge patterns was reasonable, but in fact the Germans were actually less sophisticated in their camouflage applications at that time. However, your theory holds up well when applied to Austrian camouflage of the period. They had some amazing variations on their Tarnstoff lozenge that resulted in some truly colorful schemes.

I don't see how my comment regarding your model were negative. They were merely a statement of fact. The DML/Dragon lozenge colors are very wrong. It's not a reflection on you or your abilities, but something that could have been easily avoided with some research into the various reviews of the kit on Internet.

Regarding the Mocha/Turquoise theory on D.VIII wings, there is some indication that they may have been a more brown/olive dope. However. I have yet to see any photographic evidence of a turquoise under surface and that theory has generally been dismissed. Or at least hasn't progressed with any photographic evidence to support it. Two photos have been put forward to indicate there may have been the trademark olive Fokker streaking on the wing on at least one aircraft, but I don't think it was a standard practice on the D.VIII.

Finally, let me state again, nice build, but the lozenge is simply wrong. Please take it in the friendly and constructive vein in which it was offered. BTW, the error on my D.VIII isn't the wing, but rather I used the earlier five color lozenge instead of the correct later four color. I just liked the darker five color better on that aircraft.

Take care, Dan Hartz"

Hopefully that will be seen as constructive and not negative.

Dan

Thank you, Dan. What you posted below is, indeed, constructive and I'm sure Michael will appreciate it as such. What do you say we call this one "a wrap" and move on to other modeling issues.

Not to be a real stickler, but the all one color silver engine lacks realism to me. A black wash would have done wonders to make the engine look more *alive*

But other than that a very nice model !!