Navy One heading to museum

Albeit a rather selective one.

Scott G. Welch Don't tread on me.

According to the above statement, 80% of Air Force records between 1947 and

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Admitted, some did, some didn't. Giant klunky things that took up a whole floor. In the late 60s, all District commands had computer sections. The Quartermaster Corps where I was stationed also covered the Reserve District and the Marines stationed out of the Philadelphia Naval Yard and Naval Hospital.

As I said, the Navy Yard you were based out of would have done your records, not at ship level. You would have been too busy for that. 8-) Your day-to-day records (and mine as well) were on paper, and usually in multiplicate. (Never less than three.)

Not really that high

Medical? No

I had to get copies of my DD214 and aslo my 89-year-old father-in-law's from WWII. Mine were back in a short time, his took maybe a month - six weeks.

In two years, aside from boot and advanced training, I was only stationed at one base (Quartermaster Depot) with a bunch of side trips as a military courier.

No arguement there.

Let me ask you this. I had a friend, a squid who missed his morning ship-out because he got arrested for public intoxication. After an interesting flight out to his carrier, and a breeches bouy to his ship, he spent the next two weeks in the brig, followed by loss of grade and pay. I have seen fellow Marines at my station get busted one or two grades for UA, with fines and loss of pay. One even was sent to Saigon for "attitude adjustment" as his squad leader put it. Why is it that the shrub never had to answer for his vacation?

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

in article snipped-for-privacy@mb-m07.aol.com, The Old Timer at snipped-for-privacy@aol.comspamless wrote on 07/18/03 7:34 AM:

Two possible reasons. 1. It never happened. 2. Suction

I'm always reminded of former Gov. Ann Richards description of Bush. "He was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple!"

MBell

It's the first time a sitting President made a carrier trap. And the first time a USN aircraft had the call sign "Navy 1". Air Force One you know about, and Marine One is the President's helo, hence the Navy One for that S-3.

Posted via

The points are far from moot. The fact that he was neither in the Army nor the Air Force during the stated times IS the point. Since his military career occurred after 1964 his records weren't lost in the St. Louis fire, if they were ever there.

The fact that some military records have been lost for some veterans does nothing to destroy the credibility of the existing records of other veterans. This mislogic seems to be being used as an excuse not to look at what documentation IS available.

The fact is that the original records are available, they've been obtained via the FOIA. The web site I pointed to in the original note has them

They're there for anyone interested to examine. Transfer requests, and the denial of same. Efficiency reports which are not rated because the performance was "not observed". Orders to report which were not followed and his loss of flight rating for failing to take his physical is also documented.

It sheds a very interesting light on the Commander in Chief's brilliant, albeit brief, Vietnam era military career.

He does look damn good in a flight suit, then again so does Tom Cruise.

I have not tried to get records from Saint Louis, but I've been told the "fire excuse" has been given out for years while workers there are too lazy to look up the requests. The government has come down on them and many people who thought their records were lost are finding they really exist. You may want to send another request if you have tried more than a year ago.

I lean toards #2. Thanks for both your posts Milt.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

I know about the burned records. That nightmare raises it's ugly head at least once a week in my line of work.

Perhaps that's what happened to Clinton's record of military service? Oh, I forgot. He doesn't have one.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"

This is just flat not true. I've been to the records archive in St Louis to research military service records. I've sifted through some of the burned papers and have seen what's left of those burnt records.

My wife's uncle was in the 100th BG and was shot down on in the 10 Oct 43 Munster raid. He was MIA until his remains were found in a cemetery in Ost Bevern in 1946. His records are among those totally destroyed in the fire. It was a devastating event for a large number of WW-II and Korean War veterans.

While I would NEVER say there are NO lazy government workers at the archives in St Louis (or anywhere else), anyone who said effects of the fire are exaggerated as a cover-up for lazy workers just does not understand the true scope of what happened there.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat"

That must have been the fire that wiped out the memory of the CO of the Alabama Air Guard unit that Bush was assigned to. He said Bush "never reported".

Speaking as one who is not a Shrub lover, I cannot be too shocked at this. He is neither the first or the last relative of a big shot to be cut some slack, nor is he the first or the last politician to inflate his war record (Nixon, Gore, and Reagan come immediately to mind). Nor, is he the first one to game the system to avoid getting his ass shot at. I consider him and his cronies a true danger to our civil and economic liberties. However, I am inclined to cut him some slack on his pre drying-out behavior. Kim M As always,

Operation American Freedom-Where is our regime change?

I have a very hard time with cutting him ~any~ slack. At the time he was screwing around playing Capt. Ace Flyboy, two of my closest friends became eligable to go onto the Wall. I was out by then, and went to their funerals. These men were heroes, not that little bastard. I find it offensive that he prances around like a real hard case; he's a scumbag.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Yes, and the point of this particular tangent seems to be the contention that Bush's military service was a sham. Pull Willy out of the hat when you can no longer defend Bush's behavior? I defy you to find ten Americans on this NG who are inclined to defend Clinton in any way. I certainly wouldn't.

That said, and with the further proviso that Bush has yet to demonstrate to me that he is a competent president, this thread tangent is (regrettably) completely beside the point. Bush is the President. Having a sham military career is not an impeachable offense, nor is it a disqualification for candidacy, nor is it a federal offense, nor is it a crime against nature. The best I can figure out is that it amounts to so much whining that Bush doesn't deserve to be president. Yeah, okay, except in that case, who does? Gore? I voted for him, as did more folks than those that voted for Bush, but the fact of the matter is, he muffed the campaign. If his winning strategy ever counted on taking Florida, then he deserved to lose. It's a commentary on how weak both candidates were that Florida was even close for a Republican, and yet that Gore had to have it to win.

Dubya will finish this term, and will run for another. He might just win again. We will probably survive the worst he can do; he might even learn on the job and turn out to be pretty good.

The horse may learn to sing.

Mark Schynert

Well some folks with far more wisdom than you or I have pointed out that this is exactly the strategy we want. By throwing down the gauntlet, "Bring it on.", Bush basically stuck a thumb in the eye of Al Queda and Islamofascists worldwide. If they are flocking to Iraq to try and dis-lodge American forces (who have more than enough firepower to respond in kind) then they aren't killing civilians somewhere else. And from various reports that appears to be what they're doing...

Yes, Americans are dying. But at least they are Servicemen that can respond with some effectiveness, rather than Office workers on the

Don't construe that to be a "Servicemen are there to die" comment. Nothing would please me more than not one more death for our forces. That being said, we ARE in a war. Perhaps not a declared one but one just as real as the Cold War was. And unfortunately, in war, we lose our best first.

Chris C.

REMOVE THE OBVIOUS FROM MY EMAIL ADDY TO REPLY

You, maybe. There's a bunch of men with stars on their shoulders who said we needed a lot more soldiers over there than we sent, and that we should finish Afghanistan first--remember that place? They were overrruled. The key to success in the Rumsfeld Pentagon, they say, is kneepads and lipbalm.

have pointed out that this is exactly the strategy we want. By throwing down the

But Al Queda is busy in Afghanistan--remember that place? Saddam's Republican Guard simply fell back, put on civilian clothes and began the guerilla war that we can look forward to for the next five years. While we're looking for WMD's, I suppose.

I'm not debating that there was a devastating fire that did destroy many records. However, a friend who has done research at the St Louis facility was told by a person working there that for years some workers would use the "destroyed in the fire excuse" when records were not readily found. The government has since cracked-down on this type of excuse making, and now workers will devote much more time to individual requests for data.

There was a St. Louis editor in the 1880's who would go off on prolonged drunks, and came back and said he had been "on a tour of the Indian Territory."

Typical of the liberal way of thinking that been posted in this newsgroup header, or is it the lack of any sort of thinking by liberals? Both would be sadly lacking in the smarts dept.

Better get with current events, it changed after the Joke from Hope left the WH with his little lapdog algore. Hope this helps.