OT: Boeing Loses Out on Air Force Tanker Deal

Oh, NOW you've done it... ;-)

All joking aside, this is an interesting thread, and "someone@somedomain" makes some thoughtful points. It really hurts to see a comment along the lines of "i don't wonder at all why so many hate us", and I'm Canadian, for Pete's sake. Americans have proven themselves, over and over again, to be the most generous people on Earth, both as a nation and as individuals. So be proud!

JT

i'm proud of the history and people of my country but not where too many are today.

Personally, I'm more a Reagan "peace through strength" type conservative...

Dang...and here I was thinking I had dibbs on "Home Despot"...

Pat Flannery wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

Hmm. I think it's kill the Islamofacists becuase they are trying to kill us. Never heard any one suggest it was the Christian God. He may have a dog in this fight but I reckon if he wanted them dead he could do it himself.

Frank

Just wait till our troops show up:

Rufus wrote: : : Dang...and here I was thinking I had dibbs on "Home Despot"... : Nah, I have been calling them "Home Despot" for some time. Plus there is the "Orfice Despot". Unfortunately, I will have to stop using "Completely Useless" when "Comp USA" shuts down here eventually.

Bruce

I've heard the name, but never seen one.

..."Orifice Despot"...sounds like you know my ex.

that's because you're hiding in the real world.

Oh no! Sound the air raid sirens! Hunker down for the blasts!

Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.

LOL. Wait... they don't sell sushi there by any chance? ... Thought not!

I spend most of my time trying to avoid low-life areas of Tokyo, particularly Ikebukuro (the scumhole of Tokyo if I ever saw one), Shinjuku, and Shibuya. That means I mostly get to see upmarket shops and department stores with more than two syllables in the name :-)

Great news for EADS and Airbus

actually ther'es a sushi place one block away. too much crime in them? yakuza or dumb gangs?

I'm not real sure who to reply to so I'll just reply to the original message. Too many stupid people letting emotions get in the way of facts. Let's examine the facts:

1. Alabama is in the US last I heard. I know they tried to leave a while back but they are still here. Last time I was there, the percentage of Europeans was pretty low. Probably going to be built by US workers. Seems to be quite a lot of them there. Whether it is a union plant or not will be up to the workers. (Don't even get me started on unions; and yes, I am part of one, in case you wanted to know). Think steel, think Detroit. Not good. GM just announced it will close 2 more plants because a supplier strike has prevented them from getting parts. How many jobs got lost because of that??????
2. Boeing has been trying to peddle the 767 (about a 30 year old airframe) on the military for about 20 years now. They first proposed it as a replacement for the Navy P-3 back in the 80's. The Navy rejected it because it did not have the fuel efficiency (yes, they also didn't like it because it only had two engines. Guess not every reason has to actually make sense). And that was back when jet fuel was 1. Alabama is in the US last I heard. I know they tried to leave a while back but they are still here. Last time I was there, the percentage of Europeans was pretty low. Probably going to be built by US workers. Seems to be quite a lot of them there. Whether it is a union plant or not will be up to the workers. (Don't even get me started on unions; and yes, I am part of one, in case you wanted to know). Think steel, think Detroit. Not good. GM just announced it will close 2 more plants because a supplier strike has prevented them from getting parts. How many jobs got lost because of that?????? 2. Boeing has been trying to peddle the 767 (about a 30 year old airframe) on the military for about 20 years now. They first proposed it as a replacement for the Navy P-3 back in the 80's. The Navy rejected it because it did not have the fuel efficiency (yes, they also didn't like it because it only had two engines. Guess not every reason has to actually make sense). And that was back when jet fuel was $0.40 per gallon. Now it is nearly $3.00. 3. The 767 is old technology, all metal, expensive to maintain, and not particularly fuel efficient compared to newer airframe designs. (since 2000, most 767 orders have been for freighters or third-world airlines - might be a hint in there. JAL and Nippon are the only major airlines that have ordered and I believe that some or most of those orders were cancelled - strange that info is not on the Boeing website isn't it?). It also flies slower than the A330. That means it can't get on station as fast. Pretty important to that fighter jock who needs gas to get back across the big pond. 4. The A330 is low maintenance (downtime and turnback for my airline on the A330 is about 80% lower than that of our 767's), uses the same fly-by wire technology that most modern fighers use, and is made with composites (lighter, which gives it an edge in fuel efficency).The design is only about 10 years old. It also cost a lot less - remember: it's your tax dollars here. 5. Numerous US airlines have purchased Airbus airframes for the reasons stated above..40 per gallon. Now it is nearly .00.
3. The 767 is old technology, all metal, expensive to maintain, and not particularly fuel efficient compared to newer airframe designs. (since 2000, most 767 orders have been for freighters or third-world airlines - might be a hint in there. JAL and Nippon are the only major airlines that have ordered and I believe that some or most of those orders were cancelled - strange that info is not on the Boeing website isn't it?). It also flies slower than the A330. That means it can't get on station as fast. Pretty important to that fighter jock who needs gas to get back across the big pond.
4. The A330 is low maintenance (downtime and turnback for my airline on the A330 is about 80% lower than that of our 767's), uses the same fly-by wire technology that most modern fighers use, and is made with composites (lighter, which gives it an edge in fuel efficency).The design is only about 10 years old. It also cost a lot less - remember: it's your tax dollars here.
5. Numerous US airlines have purchased Airbus airframes for the reasons stated above.

Fact is, Boeing has not remained competitive in the industry. They are stuggling because they are slow to adapt - they want to keep doing it the way they have always done it. They have had a number of major orders cancelled. Look at the newer 737's (-700, -800, -900)- there are no real advances in technology there. They are still 737's. A 40 year old design.

To be fair, Airbus has lost orders also, especially on the A380. However, you can't hardly buy an A330 or A340 - everyone wants them and they can't produce them fast enough.

Until Boeing gets it's act together, it will contine to loose contracts and customers.

John Alger USN(ret)

dirty people, homeless people, chinese gangs, japanese yakuza. The local yakuza are very polite, the rest is a collection of human trash.

have drugs become a problem? speed is really killing a lot of people. it is a relatively new import to the east coast and the police are overwhelmed. it's making the crack incasion look like a sunday school excursion. several neighborhoods that were painfully crawling back from slums are now further imperiled by hordes of desperate people doing anything for money. in the burbs, certain towns are almost lawless. what is sad is that they had

Fox Biz is reporting that Boeing is mullin over filing a protest next week. That tells me Boeing has mustered some political support - for better or worse.

WmB

yeah, you would think they've bought a few senators and such over the years.