OT: Obsolete WWII aircraft

I also remember as a kid seeing photos in Hot Rod magazine of BIG dragsters using Allison engines taken from WW 2 fighter aircraft. Not many, but they were used.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Reply to
The Old Timer
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Craig,

For starters, even though "obsolete" military aircraft were still being produced almost all the way through WW-II, they were still being used by US Forces, either as trainers, supporting roles, or in theaters where their capabilities fit the requirements.

Most, however were Lend-Leased to allied countries (Soviet Union, for example, got the bulk of P-39 production).

The Republic P-35, Curtiss P-36 and Brewster Buffalo, I believe were out of production before the start of the war, and were pretty much gone by the winter of 1942.

As it became clear the war was coming to an end soon, contracts for production of most aircraft types were cancelled, or allowed to run out as the final production blocks of aircraft were completed. After the German surrender, thousands of heavy bombers were flown back stateside (their crews were to have transferred to the Pacific Theater for the final assault on Japan), and on the way, they were dropping off their used planes at places like Kingman Army Air Field in Arizona, Walnut Ridge (Arkansas) Army Airfield, Chino California, and a host of other Army fields around the country. After VJ Day, a similar thing happened with heavy bombers in the Pacific Theater. It was the fastest way to get aircrews back home.

Those planes stood on these fields for months, parked wingtip to wingtip, waiting. In either late 1945 or early 1946, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (a government agency set up during the Depression years) was renamed the "War Assets Administration", for the purpose of handling the disposal of surplus aircraft, vehicles and ships.

Most of the aircraft were unceremoniously scrapped, for their aluminum (WearEver Cookware, for example, was born out of the extremely cheap scrap aluminum available in the late 1940's). A fall 1945 issue of Life Magazine had a photo-series showing among other things, a freight train of open gondola cars, loaded with brand-new P-38's pulling out of Lockheed's plant in Georgia, bound for a scrap metal operator someplace. Other planes were scrapped in place, where they stood down at the cessation of hostilities. Peter M. Bowers made a bit of a career photographing the planes in storage facilities such as Kingman and Walnut Ridge.

Of course, a lot of these planes did survive, and indeed go on to fly again, either in the same roles, or in different military roles through the 50's, even into the late 1960's. The Navy and Coast Guard used B-17's after WW-II, with the Coast Guard flying B-17's into the early 1960's as air-sea rescue planes, with a droppable lifeboat slung underneath. The Army Air Force and subsequently the USAF used a few B-24's in weather research flying into the

1950's, and B-17's as VIP transports for officers. B-25's were used in training roles and as fast transports throughout the 1950's. The A-26 was kept as well, most going into mothballs in Arizona, only to be pulled out for duty in Korea, and back to Europe at the outset of the Cold War. A few, like the AFM's B-24D "Strawberry Bitch" were used as "laboratory experiments" in preservation ("mothballs") and were reclaimed as part of that experiment ("Strawberry Bitch", IIRC, was taken out of mothballs at Davis Monthan in 1959, to determine not only her state of repair, but also to monitor just how many man-hours would be needed to put her in flying trim again--it was remarkably quick) Of course, the C-47 was kept around in large numbers, although a fair number were sold to private operators, either as cargo planes, or were converted to civilian airliners (Purdue University's Aviation Technology School built an entire charter airline fleet for Purdue Airlines from surplus C-47's in the 1950's, both from wrecks, and from mothballed aircraft). A few B-17's were bought privately from this surplus stock and used as executive transports (Col. Robert McCormick, publisher of the Chicago Tribune owned one for several years). The same was true of the C-46 fleet. A fair number of fighter planes were given to Latin American countries to bolster their defences, mostly P-47's and P-51's. A few entrepreneurs bought up B-17's for the fuel in their tanks (The Cardon Bros. in Arizona were reputed to have sold this 100-octane gas in their chain of gas stations in Arizona--ruining a lot of automobile engines in the process).

The US Navy, of course with far fewer aircraft than the Army, hung on to their wartime planes far longer, at places such as Litchfield Naval Air Station and Sky Harbor Airport's (Phoenix) military side well into the 1950's. I remember seeing, as a 12-year old boy in the summer of 1957, on a flying stopover with my uncle (I spent about half that summer in AZ with him and his family) at Sky Harbor, about 50 TBF/TBM Avengers being converted to aerial sprayers and firebombers, and perhaps a dozen B-17G's being converted to aerial spraying duties. These planes all still had all of their turrets, but of course, no guns.

All of this took decades to complete, even though the bulk of the heavy stuff was gone from the Arizona boneyards by 1950 or so. About 1971, the Air Force (WAA having gone away 20 years or so earlier), pulled together almost 100 surplus WW-II primary trainers, mostly Ryan PT-20/22's and Fairchild PT-19's at Purdue University Airport, and auctioned them off to the highest bidder.

Sorry for the long read, but it's fun remembering....

Art Anderson

Reply to
EmilA1944

To elaborate a bit more even: Of course, most all pre-war US military aircraft in front-line service were destroyed or captured (Pearl Harbor, the Philippines, etc.), while those still on strength stateside were used until replaced by new, more serviceable planes (aircraft production was already being ramped up considerably in 1940-41), along with new designs and upgrades to existing ones.

At war's end in Europe, those planes not kept in theater as part of the occupation forces were either sent home (B-17's and B-24's flew home with their crews for the most part, to be placed in storage at air bases all over, mostly in the Southwest, but also at bases such as Walnut Ridge and in Georgia. Other, less desireable aircraft (the Martin B-26 fleet for example) were often scrapped in place overseas, rather than spend the money and fuel to bring them home.

After the Japanese surrender, most all the serviceable B-29's were flown home, again a very good way to repatriate their crews, and most all of them were placed in "mothball storage" in Arizona, being parked next to brand-new Superfortresses right off the assembly lines. Cargo planes, by reason of their utility, were retained in large numbers by the Army Air Forces, and were used until they wore out (took a long time to wear out the last C-47's), Others were sold off to private operators (C-46's), while a fair number of C-47's were converted to airliner configurations for the numerous startup airlines after the war (Purdue University, which I grew up next to) rebuilt about 15 or 16 C-47's over the 1950's for use as DC-3 airliners for their charter airline, Purdue Aeronautics Corporation (to fly Big Ten and other conference football and basketball teams to away games--and for training new generations of A&P mech's and training commercial pilots in a college environment. Brand-new P-38's, P-47's, P-51's and even some P-63's were available, right along with their used brethren, for not much more than the price of a new car then, but almost no one had the price of admission to fly them, so not many were sold to private owners then. The Navy acquired some B-17G's for modification into airborne warning radar planes, and the US Coast Guard used B-17's with droppable lifeboats well into the late 1950's, as did the Air Force during Korea. The Air Force also utilized a few B-24's well into the 1950's for weather research. Hundreds of P-47D's and P-51D's were given to Latin American and other countries to allow them to create air forces of their own. Douglas A-26's answered the call of the Korean War, and also Cold War service in Germany in the early 1950's (an old friend of mine, now deceased, related that upon being recalled to active duty as a pilot, he was sent to Germany, and was assigned the same A/B26 he had flown in 1945!). Others were used by Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard units well into the 1950's (I still remember, as a young boy during the Korean War, seeing flights of Hellcats, Avengers, and Helldivers flying into Purdue Airport during dispersal exercises).

Of course, the vast bulk of the 10's of thousands of US Military aircraft left as surplus after WW-II were unceremoniously scrapped, almost as efficiently as they were built--which drove the price of aluminum scrap to rock-bottom well into the 1950's. Still, in warehouses and hangars around the country, primarily in the Southwest, crated components existed well into the early

1970's, and some may still be languishing still. Units such as turrets, engines, propellors--they abounded for years, along with tons of lesser components. Many of the restored examples of WW-II US planes today are the beneficiaries of these "found in the barn" NOS (new old stock--to use a car restorer's term) parts and subassemblies. Unlimited Hydroplane racers rapidly transitioned from the purpose-built marine racing engines of the 1930's to brand-new Allisons, and later equally new-in-the-crate Packard Merlins by the early 1950's. Even the Arfons brothers from Ohio used crated, NOS Allisons for their series of "Green Monster" drag-racing and Bonneville cars.

The US Navy, on the other hand, having far fewer aircraft than the Army, scrapped out their older, earlier aircraft through the war for the most part, and kept the latest examples around for years, stored in places like Litchfield Park AZ, until they were either sold off for other use, or scrapped in the

1950's. I still remember, as a 12-year old, seeing dozens of Avengers awaiting conversion to firebombers along with B-17's being converted for similar use as well as being fitted with tanks and spray racks for fire-ant eradication in the South.

One of the last disposal auctions of WW-II US Military aircraft was at Purdue, about 1971, when several dozen PT-19's, PT-20's and -22's were gathered there from various former training sites, most tattered and weathered, and auctioned off to the highest bidders--it was interesting to see.

Art Anderson

Reply to
EmilA1944

A-26s also put in some time in Vietnam, to the Air Force's mild embarrassment.

Bill Banaszak, MFE, AWMA

Reply to
Bill Banaszak

In the Pacific, they got their chance to mix it up with enemy fighters while attending to their CAP and CAS chores. There was at least one ace that earned his kills in GM Wildcats.

WmB

To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Reply to
WmB

great impromptu piece, sir, on subject I've wondered about too! Shawn

efficiently as

Reply to
Shawn

There was an A-26 flying out of Buffalo Air Port until around 1978 or so. It was owned by Cornell Aeronautical Labs. I think that it got sold off when they were bought out. Had a real snazzy white and crimson paint scheme.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Reply to
The Old Timer

PCAM in Santa Rosa has one in mid-restoration. She's on her wheels with one engine done and slung, turret and some guns in place. All in all coming along fine. Several years put into what had been a real derelict.

Tom

Reply to
Maiesm72

In article , Mike Keown writes

ISTR a similar tale of Mosquitos coming off the production line, being tested, accepted, and flown to an emergency landing strip near Wigton, Cumbria, where the engines and other useful items were removed, and the airframes dumped in a small quarry just across the road from the strip (near Westnewton?). Other airframes including (IIRC) Armstrong Whitworth Albemarles went in too. The whole lot burned in the '50s or '60s, however sometime after '75 an attempt was made to salvage some bits with a view to reconstructing an Albemarle(?), but (IIRC) there wasn't enough left. I visited the site at the time, and there were the tubular frame skeletons of several wing/fuselage centre sections, some with nacelles attached removed to an adjacent field, but not much else. I climbed down into the quarry and there was all sorts of stuff underfoot but I wasn't able to grab any souvenirs! I think I recall a skeletal Tiger Moth, and a small armoured glass windscreen which looked as if it had came off a fighter. I did take photos at the time, but I'm damned if I can find the slides now.

Regards,

>
Reply to
Moramarth

I visited the air museum (Canadian Museum of Flight) at Langley BC.

Quite a few aircraft of interest, Particularly:

a. a Handley Page Hampden. Once a torpedo bomber trainer at the Patricia Bay OTU. Was on the sea bed for a few decades but has been restored to display condition. It will never fly again, but interesting. Must be the only one left in the world.

b. A Lysander in excellent condition but with little of the fuselage skin on it, only the framework and interior (Cockpit, WAG position). Great reference for interior details.

Have some pics but am in the middle of moving and they haven't surfaced yet.

Cheers,

Doc H

Reply to
DHopper8

I can readily understand dumping Albemarles. Indeed, it's amazing very many were built but then Curtiss kept plugging along, pushing P-40s out the doors. :D

I can readily sympathise with you having trouble finding photos. I've beeen rooting around trying to get my hands on that photo of the Howmet car. I know where it 'used' to be.

Bill Banaszak, MFE

Reply to
Bill Banaszak

My Dad was ex-Army Air Corps. When he moved the family to CA in the 60s they stopped at some of the warbird dumps along the way. I say "they" because my mom was still pregnant with me. She has a picture that my Dad took of her (and me as it were) standing in front of a P-40. This was in AZ in '63 and I belive he said that it was heavy with P-40s. Might be the same place.

As for his part in the post war draw down, he was a wrench on B-24s. He said that the mechanics buried every and anything from brand new complete P&W radials to factory fresh Willys Jeeps. Straight into a pit and filled in by the dozers. I guess it was a choice between these parts or him. He didn't catch the boat ride home until November '46.

He was always haunted by the destruction of the equipment. He always said that if there had ever been any doubt in his mind that war is nothing short of absolute ruin and waste, it was erased during his time stationed in Italy.

WmB

To reply, get the HECK out of there snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Reply to
WmB

P-40s continued to be produced because they were dirt cheap compared with other 'high' performance fighters, and usful as fighter-bombers until late in the war and as advanced or transition trainers right through to the end, freeing up P-51s and P-47s for the front. Contrast that with the Albermarle, whose main claim to fame was as an inefficient paratroop platform or as a glider tug--the C-47/Dakota was far better for the former and not t0o shabby at the latter, while the Halifax and Stirling were adapted to tug duties and far more effective. I imagine the only reason the Albemarle was put in production at all was that Armstrong Whitworth hadn't any other designs of their own going by the mid- to late war, and the assembly line was set up before the RAF realized how far from optimum the plane was as a bomber, a transport, or a glider tug.

Mark Schynert

Reply to
Mark Schynert

I remember an old-timer that passed on in southern Ontario back in the early

1970s. The guy must've been a real pack-rat because when they opened his barn to the light of day that found several Fairey Swordfishes and Westland Lysanders in various states of disassembly, as well as numerous military truck parts and (what got me involved at the time) several dozen motorcycles still in the crates. It all went up for auction. And no, I didn't make to cut on any of the bikes. 8--(

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Reply to
The Old Timer

I've heard of the same one. Have a ref here somewhere. IIRC, the way he "passed on" was that he heard an intruder prowling his "collection", went out to check and was shot for the trouble.

Cheers,

Doc H

Reply to
DHopper8

Don't know about that, but it sounds accurate, I've known some folks like that in my past. But they would have gone out well armed and very ready.

-- John ___ __[xxx]__ (o - ) --------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry Kissinger

Reply to
The Old Timer

There was an expression used in 1945 and 1946: "Flyable Termination Inventory". That referred to new aircraft still on the assembly lines at the time production contracts were cancelled at the end of WWII. Aircraft on the assembly line were divided into two gtoups: Those that were in a sufficiently advanced state of construction, that they could be completed with minimal additional effort and resources and flown to the boneyard. The second group were those in a less advanced state that were scrpped on site or shipped to the scrappers by truck or rail. Among the Flyable Termination Inventory were the last fifteen Convair B-32s.

I was also told of a B-24 that reached Mercer County Airport, near Trenton, NJ on a delivery flight around V-E day. The ferry crew boarded a train for their next destination and the B-24 remained at Mercer County for several more years.

Mike Becker Oswego, IL

Reply to
Michael F. Becker

One of the books on my shelf tells of Hawker Typhoons rolling off the production line at, I believe, Gloster's plant and being taxied straight across the field to a scrappers facility. I also remember a story from a guy who was my boss many years ago of aircraft being taxied off a cliff into the ocean on one of the Pacific Islands where he was when the big one ended.

Bill Shuey

Reply to
William H. Shuey

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