Re: Way OT Re: OT US guy who got depapped.

Didn't the two-legged pig that murdered Daniel Pearl behead him as well?

Didn't help.....

-- John The history of things that didn't happen has never been written. . - - - Henry Kissinger

Yep. Moral equivalence my ass.....

Those sure were "brave and manly" fighter for Islam, weren't they. Those five terrorists, hiding behind the anyonimity of masks, attacking and beheading a bound and helpless person are cowards. If they are so brave and believe so strongly in their cause that they are willing to die for it, why did they hide their cowardly asses behind masks like children?

They are the lowest form of animal life and I show them the soles of both my feet.

"The world would be a much simpler place if every one could pick and choose their obligations, but we can't and we shouldn't." Major Charles W. Whittlesey

Gentlemen. Two words that seem to have been completely ignored in this thread, for the 'let's nuke the bastards back to the stone age' brigade.

My Lai.

RobG

But they are already there, and like it that way.

Tom

Interesting. Not one of the patriotic American citizens on this ng responded to this in the way that I thought they would. Could it be a case of selective memory, or am I just in everyones killfile? I'm not starting anything, just reminding you boys that *every* country has something, somewhere, to be ashamed of.

RobG

I am Ron, yes. I was just pointing out that pointing fingers is not a good thing. And I'm sure that the US soldiers involved in the current scandal will be dealt with a lot more promptly than the animals at My Lai were. The Iraqi's? That might have to wait for a while.

RobG

Which is why I haven't pointed a finger beyond commenting that they were fools to do what they did and flat out stupid to take pictures of themselves doing it. It's in the hands of the Courts Martial now and I do hope the Courts point out how stupid the latter bit was. I also freely admit to not being a good candidate for interrogator or prison guard, too inventive and twisted by far.

I hate doing this, having tried to catch up on this newsgroup after not having read it for a few weeks, but I failed to ignore these abundant flame wars, and although I have resisted the urge to post a couple of times within the last hour or so, this comment I cannot let stand unmarked.

I recall back when the US tried to gain allies for the upcoming invasion of Iraq. I recall what was said about France and Frenchmen, not only referring back to 1939-45, but also to 1914-18. I don't recall you in particular as one of the guys who joined in that choir, but I don't recall you saying "that was many years ago", back then. And I sure would remember that, given that very few Americans chose to speak on *that* side.

So you choose to conveniently forget My Lai? Once again, George Santayana's words are proven. And there are more things like My Lai in the history book of the USA - even though it's a rather thin book.

-Lasse

You have it wrong, My Lai is not forgotten. Reread what I wrote, what exactly does it say? Do I at any point say to ignore the lesson of My Lai? Rob the Aussie got the meaning and the sarcasm as intended.

In that case I apologize. My reading skills must have deteriorated proportionally while I read through all those OT threads.

An aside: Today, a Danish lt. col. was removed from hist post as batall.. battal... BTN CDR (My spelling skills seem to have deteriorated as well) for saying on TV, that there could be cases in which some form of torture might be justifiable. Our military justice system is investigating to what extent Danish troops in Iraq have used excessive force by adopting a British practice of using sticks to push/beat Iraqi people who get to close. I'm not sure what to think of it: on one hand, the suffering inflicted is probably comparable to what you get when the "pushers" nudge people into the subway in Tokyo during rush hour, on the other hand, once you accept just a little violence against civilians, it could easily escalate. I for sure wouldn't trust people who said they came to help me, then proceeded with beating me up. Recently, our prime minister replaced his defense minister over a rather small messup, because otherwise that minister would find himself in big trouble in upcoming defense budget negotiations. Perhaps Bush could learn a lesson here: that could be a fast way to regain just a little respect for the USA.

-Lasse

Both of them? :+) Kim M

2 more than the French or Germans had the bottle to send, French run the other way and bury the head in the sand as usual and the Germans this time didnt seem to want to get involved with over throwing a country, how times change................

Ron, Sarcasm and irony (and humour) are things that often don't translate well face to face between different nationalities, let alone over the this thrice-damned interknob thingy. I know - I spent quite a few years involved in the tourism industry here. Even USians sometimes don't get the message from an Aussie perspective. And we're a lot closer in culture and language than either of us are with Denmark.

And I'm stupider than a Dane? Thanks a lot, pal. You're off my Christmas list! :) See how easy it is to misread the meaning?

RobG

496 or thereabouts. About 0.01% of our population. Nothing to brag about perhaps, but nothing to be ashamed of either, as long as they behave themselves. I don't know how many we still have in Kosovo. I think there is still a very small group in Afghanistan.

-Lasse

I did not reply last night as my sarcasm was running high and patience low (spend a couple of hours with a clinically demented person and yours will too). Apology accepted and one tendered in turn for biting you head off.

Can you blame the troops? They're in a combat zone filled with non-uniformed enemies (aka-unlawful enemy combatants and/or terrorists) and they start getting crowded. This is similar to standard police doctrine in or near a potential riot. As long as the troops weren't just wading into crowds and giving "hardwood shampoos" with no provocation, there shouldn't be a problem.

Who made the mistake, the DM? Rumsfeld has yet to be found culpable and is in fact persuing the investigation of those who were, that's one of the things he's supposed to do and guess what? He is doing it.

S> >Rob the Aussie got the meaning and the sarcasm as intended.

There are also Rob K. and Rob van R., the latter is from I think the Netherlands (or is that Belgium) and the other might be an American......but you are the only Aussie Rob that I know of. See above for the target of the particular bit of sarcasm.

That part about "unlawful" appears to depend quite strictly upon whether you accept the first additional protocol from 1977, articles 43, 44 and

1. So let's agree do disagree about that and leave it aside.

This part I fully agree with, except for one reservation about the context: If we can't help them without beating and insulting them, perhaps we should leave them alone. In any case, the soldiers can't be faulted.

He may not be at fault, or he may have ordered it as I understand Hersh claims. But that doesn't really matter. He is the politically responsible entity. The buck's second to last stop is with him, with only Bush himself at the end of line.

As I said, our DM was dismissed because he referred a *non-utterance* from a secret meeting in the control commitee of the parliament, which oversees the operations of our intelligence service. I believe what he said was, in regard to some secret intelligence reports, that "no members of the comittee had questioned the validity of the reports". Even though he just referred what nobody had said, this was viewed a breach of confidentiality. After trying to explain his way out of the situation, he was finally replaced, because he would not be considered as trustworthy and impeccable in the upcoming budget negotiations. What did he do wrong? Very little, if indeed anything. But for restoring the necessary trust, he had to go.

Rumsfeld may not have done anything wrong, but his resignation would without question send a positive signal to the rest of the world. As for Rumsfeld leading an investigation of something in which he himself might be involved, I must say I fail to see the soundness of such an approach. Or is it in fact an independent investigation, which might turn against him?

-Lasse