Just watched it yesterday and was wondering what the WWI knowledgeable
thought of the planes. Did they get it right? Anything stand out as grossly
inaccurate. I'm talking about the static rendered appearance. I know the
rendered flight dynamics and the plot were typical Hollywood big screen
I was thinking the planes should have been rendered with a more glossy
finish, but I'm no WWI guy.
I watched a little more of it again - one of the Red Fokker Tripes did
appear a little glossier than the rest, so it may have been an effort to
impart service wear and tear.
I wasn't going to get into the hokey flight dynamics - BUT...
... on second viewing I was struck by the amount of bullet damage sustained
in the immediate area of the cockpit (as in just behind the pilot's upper
torso) without scoring a lethal hit on the pilot. Dunno the armor specs on
these old crates, but that seemed extremely unlikely not to cause injury. A
case of Hollywoodn't have happened in real life?
... the smoke tracing from the rounds seemed a little overdone. Did WWI
aircraft have tracer type rounds, or due to the early MG tech of the day
were they decidedly non-smokeless in the powder used? Perhaps on purpose?
Apart from that, cinematically a beautiful looking WWI flick. Too much
cheese in it, but that's the way they do 'em these days.
Also enjoyed the movie - only problem I had with it was when they went to so
much effort individualizing the Nieuports flown by the "good guys", why did
they go the cheap route & use generic all red Fokker Triplanes with no
individual markings except for the head "bad guy" whose Tripe was black??
Otherwise a good movie
I recall Tom Young mentioning the use of radial engines instead of
rotaries. (Call the Anachronism Police!!!) :)
I would think that planes in use wouldn't have that just-shellacked
Bill Banaszak, MFE Sr.
I didn't see the movie so I can't say if the smoke trail effect was
overdone but the smoke trails themselves are legitimate - indeed, an
early German term for these was "Rauchspurgeschosse" which translates, I
think, as "smoke producing bullet".
All the major combatants used smokeless powder and all had tracer
ammunition. Phosphorus and magnesium both seem to have been used to
produce the various tracer rounds. Burning phosphorus, of course,
produces a rather heavy smoke.
You can alter the burn color by introducing trace chemicals into the
incendary mix - barium for red, copper for green and so on. The same
principle is used to produce multi-colored fireworks displays.
Dunno if WW I combatants did that or just used "white" tracers but
certainly the practice adding chemicals to produce a colored tracer was
common by the second world war.
I'd suspect colored tracers were fairly common during the 1914-18
" WmB" wrote
Haven't seen the movie (it probably won't show here, either), so I can't
comment on it as such, but AFAIK, WW1 a/c generally had absolutely ZIP in
the way of armour - much too heavy for them to carry any useful amount.
There were late-war exceptions - the Sopwith Salamander comes to mind,
and I have a feeling that AEG of Germany had a couple, but these types
were usually used for trench strafing and hence could sacrifice a little
performance in exchange for a better chance that the pilot would get back
to the field! There may be others, but I'm positive that there won't be
As for bullet damage scattering around everywhere - possibly not that
unusual, given the state of aero weapons and ammunition at the time (see
below). The general rule in combat was to get close enough to see the
whites of the enemy's eyes, then halve that distance! (OK, I'm
exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea). Aces were usually the ones who
pressed home their attacks more fiercely than the rest - most were
actually fairly ordinary pilots - they just got close enough to make sure
every bullet they fired had the best chance possible to hit something
apart from the French fields below.
Lethal damage to a pilot - with the pattern spreading out all over the
show (due to inconsistencies in ammo and gun manufacture, small calibre
bullets, short and poor training, old-fashioned 'nerves' etc), it's a
wonder that ANY bullets ever hit anything. The small calibre bullets no
doubt contributed to many pilots surviving encounters that SHOULD have
I could be wrong though - no doubt minds immeasurably superior to my own
are already making their plans...
Early MG tech ??? Are you serious ?
You need to read about the Boer War before
you think MG's in WW I were *early tech* !!
(the words Pom Pom gun, and concentration camp
also came from that war)
You might also read about how effective Colt potato
diggers were against American squatters as well.
All this before WW I......
The Mg's themselves were well thought out well
performing machines by WW I. Shame infantry tactics
didn't move along as fast, tho (again) the Boer War
gave everyone a taste to how effective they could be.
No major power seemed to learn the lesion tho.
The smoke trails from the projectiles are a
measure of air pressure, moisture content,
temperature. (and velocity of said projectile)
I have had 22 250 rounds produce the exact same
trails on very hot, humid days before.
(40gr bullet @ 4150 fps)
The aircraft built by Doktor Junkers come to mind. Note most were
experimental during the war, or arrived too late to make an impact,
but his J-I was rather heavily armored. And his all-metal D-I and Cl-I
were positively modern looking!
For me, if it's before the Ma Deuce - it's early.
Between "early and later" which would you choose?
Well gee - I'm aware that the MG predates WWI, having bumped into a few
pages on Maxim and his hardware.
I honestly don't know, I've always been a single shot
rifle kinda guy... I actually gave away my Browning BAR
(civilian model guys)and my other big bore hunting
rifles when my girlfriend passed away a couple of years
ago. I am just recently getting back into shooting.
(got a Mini 14, and put an EOTech on it)
Sorry if I came off a little harsh, weather has been
real cold round here recently, real killer on all
these broken bones.......
"AM" wrote in message
Naah - just preaching to the choir a little. I've been in drydock myself
for the past week fighting a nasty sinus infection and cold. Got the cold
cleared up - and now my head really hurts.
I hate winter.
Yup, got a sinus infection too, the pressure really hurts.
Espically considering that I had my jaw taken almost
clean off a long time ago. Nothing like having arthritis
in your face.
Worst part is I have almost finished my KV 2, would have
set a record for getting a kit done so fast, and then this
pain, I mean cold spell.....
Just waiting on painting the tracks
Soon as I feel better enough, I got to take some pic's
and put them up.
pictures, yes, please. and which kv kit was it? i did the
last year and bout the trumpeter on you guys advice to use
it's tracks on the tamy. i did and it looks good. if anyone
wants pics, i could do it.
Pic's coming soon, hopefully this weekend.
It is the Trumpeter kit. An absolutely
GEORGOUS kit IMHO.
I put the fenders on even before I looked at
the Tracks. BAD idea !!! Only thing that has
saved me is that I havnt glued any wheels,
idlers, or sprockets on. Otherwise I would
have been screwed ! As it is it took almost
two days to fit the tracks on the return rollers
idlers, and sprockets. Actually not that hard with
practice, but still I should have done all the fitting
BEFORE I finished the hull/fenders.
Good news is that this kit fit's almost as well
as the Dragon Flak 36 kit. (exceptional IMHO)
Both are the most fun I've had building models in
a long while. I am stunned at how WELL everything
fit together ! This IS the golden age of modeling !!!!
I feel like I am actually LOSING skills as I
build these kit's. Thank God the 251 wasn't that
great a fit. It reminded me that one still has to
have some of that modeling skill stuff handy lol...
In three months I have finished the FLAK 36, a PAK 38,
and almost finished the Sdkfz 251C (tracks again...)
I havnt weathered any of them, as for the first time since
I was a kid, I am thinking of dioramas now.
Thanx to my younger 11 Bravo son, as he LOVES doing figures.
So when he gets back from Iraq, we will be doing some joint
diorama's then ;-)