I am going to paint a German Halftrack in Dark Yellow, or Dunklegelb,
as they call it.
I have both Testors Acryl Dunklegelb and Model Master enamel Dunklegelb.
The Acryl number is 4796 and the MM number is 2095.
Both of these are the same color when I compare them after painting test
The problem I have is that both of these colors are more a shade of
Green than Yellow.
The box art is more yellow than green.
Does that jibe with what the actual color of Dunklegelb is in your
willshak wrote in
The simple answer is in the nature of the original paint. Dunkelgelb was
the base color from it's introduction until mid/late 1944 when rot bruan or
olivgrun or even red primer became the base.
As a base color it was applied at the factory during builds or rebuilds.
The paint was supplied as a paste that could be mixed with almost anything
gas/water/kero etc. It could also be applied by paint gun (part of the
vehicles basic equipment), mops, brush, rags, whatever was available.
The quality of the original paste, how long it was stored, what it was
mixed with, the proportions of the mix, applicator, how clean the vehicle
was, adnauseum all affected final appearances.
Also interpetations of B&W film, do-da do-da.
Then of course how dirty was it at the point in time you are modeling, and
dirty with what? Back in VA my cars turned green in the spring from the
pollen covering everything.
Also the differences between your 1/35 scale model and 1/1 scale vehicle
will affect perceptions of color.
IOW unless you are a Wehrmacht veteran with an extraordinary memory not
affected by failing memory, exact matches don't exist. And even then you
probably had other things to worry about then the color of your vehicle.
Floquil railroad paints have some yellows that some people reccomend for
Panzer yellow. Just eyeball the rack it will be obvious.
Put simply don't worry to much and just have fun.
: The problem I have is that both of these colors are more a shade of
: Green than Yellow.
: The box art is more yellow than green.
The paints are close enough. There is no such thing as
an "exact" match to start with, and if there were, it would
only match that particular sample.
I suspect that greenish-yellow is hard to print, with a
high degree of inducing nausea, so most artwork goes with a
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Bruce
urden =A0 =A0Austin, TX.
I remember one of the model mags I bought that was decades old, there
were some German vets who wrote in that the colors were too
cartoonish, so I guess a bit more matte to the colors.
Since I've started modeling (again) I've noticed paints a bit more.
Look at cars, see how panels are redone and painted and have a
different fade pattern. Look at rust, things like that. Just ding
Add all the other comments, you don't want to do too much, but its all
sort of relative. Though I do find a lot of grief with people who
really trash their models with weathering. There are brass in any
army, and even if there is a war on, things do get washed, painted,
scrubbed and all that at least once in a while. If for no other reason
than to make the enlisted life hell. And it does reduce breakdowns if
you can see things beginning to wear.
As for the stuff I worked on , I get real picky. But most people never
got up close and personal to a U-2 or a B-1 or an F-111, or a AC-130U
or an MC-130H. Not to mention other bits and types.
I have seen brand new spanking fresh from the paint shop tank colors
that look one way, let them sit outdoors for a few months or years,
totally different. Amazing at how it fades.
I have seen some research that with the problems the Germans had in
just keeping factories open, standardization was more a wishful bit of
thinking than reality. They were probably lucky they got a can through
the supply chain, let alone close to a standard color.
Tomas Chory's book, "Wehrmacht Heer Camouflage Colors 1939 - 1945,"
includes color chips of surviving samples of Denkelgelb (Dark Yellow).
While the official RAL color card is a tan color, two of the four
chips are distinctly greenish, so there was some hue variation from
batch to batch. It probably depended on what pigment was used to
"darken" the yellow ochre base. If there was any blue in the pigment,
it would move the color to a greenish tone. If you wish to correct the
shade of your hobby paints to a browner tan color, just add a few
drops of red. Alternatively, Floquil Mud enamel is still a very good
basis for German Dark Yellow.
Gerald Owens wrote the following:
Thanks to all.
I just thought that the color of German armor in N.Africa would be
closer to a sand color if it was meant to help camouflage the vehicle,
more like the British Armor.
This color I have should be called Hellspargel (light asparagus).
: Thanks to all.
: I just thought that the color of German armor in N.Africa would be
: closer to a sand color if it was meant to help camouflage the vehicle,
Oh. Now you have done it! The DAK had a different selection
of paints, just as in the Balkans (Greek campaign). So, no, the
Dunkelgelb isn't correct for the DAK (but, not many people will
get excited if you go with Dunkelgelb).
Gunze Sangyo (now GSI Creos) are the only people I know who
offered a DAK color set in their "Panzer Colors" sets from many
years back. The bad news is, I don't know if it is in their
current color line up.
You can try "Gaia Color", a Japanese company that is offered
by HLJ and "Lucky Model". They have a "Tank Color" set that I
believe includes a DAK color.
None of the above are acrylics, however, but synthetic lacquer.
And, Gaia Color, or perhaps Lucky Model, are not fast to restock,
as I am painfully aware.
Lifecolor may offer a DAK/Balkans Wehrmacht color set, but
given the "interesting" color of their Soviet tank color set, I
wouldn't recommend Lifecolor.
FWIW, the DAK tended to be a light-medium brown color. You
can be as anal with the color as you wish. :-)
Well, I actually have some chips of the dark yellow paint off a late war
Stug III and it shows more of a medium bright yellowish color with just
a slight trace of green. (Grey Poupon mustard in bright sunlight is a
close match, just a shade too dark tho)
So like noted by others before, it depends on how the paste was mixed,
applied, and then how it weathered. Factory applied colors tend to be
more consistent, but even then they varied. (and even in this day and
age still do !!)
And then you have the "scale effect" and different sources of lighting,
I (if I'm serious) only check colors in natural sunlight. There are
enough differences because of this and other reasons that it can get
mind numbingly confusing as to what is the proper (if you can call it
that) color. Also, one can't trust old color film to be accurate......
I've been a painter for 28+ years, I can just look at a color and tell
ya what ya need to mix to make it, and had my color acuity checked in a
laboratory and I do see color better than 99% of humans. Oddly, on the
one hand it is nice and an asset to my work, on the other hand it means
the kaleidoscope of colors in spring and fall foliage can almost give me
My advice is to just paint it to what you think is close. Since most
models are viewed under artificial light, it really does not matter as
long as you are close.
OK. The model is the Tamiya Hanomag Sdkfz 251/1 and Dark Yellow is the
color the instructions say for N Africa.
They didn't say Dunklegelb, but that's Dark Yellow in German.
I do have the Model Master Afrika Braun #2102 enamel and had thought it
would be better than Dunklegelb.
I do prefer Acryl over enamel just because of the chemicals involved and
cleanup (I have a septic tank).
I also have the Testors Acryl US Army/Marine Gulf #4812 which is a
little less yellow than the Afrika Braun.
I also have tons of folk art acrylic paints left over from when my wife
gave Tole painting classes in house years ago, so I can tint the Gulf
color to match the Afrika Braun color.
Well, in that case I suspect colour will be the least of your
Just glue the bugger together and enjoy the experience, I picked up a
Dragon 251 a few years ago because it was going cheap and I thought
I'd like to see what a modern kit with all the bells and whistles was
like. Just opening the box scares me and it goes back on the shelf
every time, so whatever you do you'll get more fun out of your old
Tamiya than I have had with the Dragon. Plus as the 251 I got was an
early release in the series, the rivet counters still have issues with
Speaking of rivets, this is the second 251/1 I've built. The other was
built many years ago and I still have it and the instructions.
Both are Tamiya and the instructions are exactly the same. The older one
is painted Testors Panzer Black Grey (Schwarzgrau).
The older one has no rivets at all anywhere on the model, yet the old
instructions shows rivets in the model building steps and a pic of the
completed model with rivets all over the place.
This newer model has all the rivets. I only noticed this when I put the
two side by side today.
Were there ones that were welded and had no rivets?
IIRC, the Ausf. C version came in two flavours, rivitted and welded,
I'm not sure whether the difference was due to a change during the
production run or vehicles coming from different manufacturers -
possibly a mix of both (different builders changing over at different
times) as (again IIRC) the Ausf. Ds were all welded, and the Ausf. A
(damn few of those, I've still to find any reference pix of their
different style of interior on-line) and Ausf. Bs were all rivetted.
: OK. The model is the Tamiya Hanomag Sdkfz 251/1 and Dark Yellow is the
: color the instructions say for N Africa.
That kit is old enough that the painting directions are a bit
dodgy. On the other hand, Tamiya probably considers "dark yellow"
to be okay. There is some precedent for this - many vehicles were
shipped directly from Germany to the front lines w/out a stop at
the paint booth.
: I do have the Model Master Afrika Braun #2102 enamel and had thought it
: would be better than Dunklegelb.
Go for it, then. It is very difficult to prove either way that
the color you choose is "wrong". :-)
It is virtually impossible to build that kit incorrectly - I
tried, and didn't manage to build it "wrong". Poorly, yeah. Wrong -
You didn't say North Africa, originally. In North Africa, German
equipment was supposed to be painted in a two-tone scheme, but the
paints were changed halfway through the campaign, so a total of four
colors were authorized. While the first equipment rushed across in
1941 was still in Dark Gray, and was repainted hurriedly (and rather
poorly) with whatever was available, later shipments were painted in
tropical colors before leaving Europe, and the finishes were better
done (and more durable).
Dunkelgelb was introduced in early 1943 as the Germans were collapsing
in Tunisia, so it's doubtful many new vehicles arrived in that color.
If you want a comprehensive list of German military paints and hobby
paint matches (or mixes), go to:
http://www.m> I am going to paint a German Halftrack =A0in Dark Yellow, or Dunklegelb,
willshak wrote in news:LaudndEMPrcx-6rQnZ2dnUVZ_o-
Real 251s came in two flavors, rivetted and welded. I was always under the
impression that the Tami was rivetted but if you didn't care for the rivets
remove 'em and make em welded. The automotive components were identical and
both could be found in the same unit.
I think Ds were much less likely to be rivetted (I researched a while ago
but of course recall is slipping) Cs more likely. After a certain point no
more rivetted were made 41? 42?.
True, but (I had it a bit wrong in my previous post) apparently the
interior of the Ausf. B 251/1 differed considerably from that of the
C/D, and where any of the /1 interior was retained in the other /n
variants it would differ also. I got mixed up because I picked up the
Revell 251/3 (a re-boxed Zvezda, it transpired) about a year ago (a
victory of stupidity - or greed, it was cheap - over experience), only
to find most (possibly all) 251/3s were built as Ausf. As. Never
mind, I thought, there's all the bits in there to do a 251/1 - and
that's when I found out it had the Ausf. C/D interior... To make
things worse, not only can I not find the Ausf. B interior on-line,
I've never got up close and personal with the real thing. What I did
get to crawl over was a Post-War Czech OT-810 cosmetically altered to
look like an Ausf.D, so my photos are useless - it turns out
converting an Ausf. D to an OT-810 pretending to be an Ausf. D would
be a fair old task too...