Job Posting - Lafayette, Indiana

I doubt if anyone here will resent job postings. We all have to make a living. And we know it's not your fault that this temp position pays only $15 per hour, but quite frankly that's ridiculous. Even in this horrible job market your client will likely get what they pay for (i.e., poor results).

'Sporky'

--------------------------- Amy Aust>

Or a *very* slow one. ;o)

No--what they'll get is a junior draftsman--somebody reasonably fresh out of a 2 year program (or possibly still school).

I've hired semi-skilled folks at about that rate, and would do it again--there are lots of jobs (e.g. ECO paperwork, printing drawings) that need some basic drafting knowledge, but certainly don't deserve $50 an hour...

Yeh, you're quite right. I guess I'm a bit too sensitive to the recent (last couple of years, at least) tendency to try to get a silk purse for the price of a sow's ear.

Say, you're not the same Michael Bush who I just met for lunch at Jason's Deli just north of Charlotte recently, are you? If so, how is that injection molding design for the automotive metrology application going?

Mark 'Sporky' Staplet>

I'd be interested to know what you all think the pay scale should be for what appears to be an entry level position with little responsibility in a smallish town.

According to the U.S. Department of Labor's website -

, Drafters earn the following:

"Earnings for drafters vary by specialty and level of responsibility. Median hourly earnings of architectural and civil drafters were $16.93 in 2000. The middle 50 percent earned between $13.79 and $20.86. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $11.18, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $26.13. Median hourly earnings of architectural and civil drafters in engineering and architectural services in 2000 were $16.75. Median hourly earnings of electrical and electronics drafters were $18.37 in

2000. The middle 50 percent earned between $14.19 and $23.76. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $11.30, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $29.46. In engineering and architectural services, the average hourly earnings for electrical and electronics drafters were $17.30.

Median hourly earnings of mechanical drafters were $18.19 in 2000. The middle 50 percent earned between $14.43 and $23.20. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $11.70, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $28.69. The average hourly earnings for mechanical drafters in engineering and architectural services were $16.98."

Curious Deb

Not me--never been to NC

Deb, what typical pay is and what typical pay should be (in ANY industry for ANY job) aren't necessarily always the same thing, are they? In

1991 as basically a draftsperson I took a 30% reduction in pay because of a downturn in a certain segment of industry . . . to about $16 per hour. I had been used to earning $25 per hour, with overtime. 12 years hence the economy is again in a low spot and salaries are weak and salaries really have not risen significantly from where they were a decade ago -- I understand the law of supply and demand -- but at the same time the cost of the average home has risen quite significantly, as well as many other things. Naturally, this translates into a lower standard of living. Now, companies and company management are not entirely to blame for this. Obviously there are a lot of factors, including the migration of engineering jobs offshore to countries like India and China. And the Internet has played a major role in all that, of course. But these particular factors are actually a rather recent phenomenon. The fact remains that salaries have not risen significantly in spite of quite a few years of economic prosperity in the country -- from the mid 90's through 2000. At the same time it seems apparent that the scruples of corporate America have largely gone down the drain, with CEOs earning huge bonuses even in companies which are laying off workers and filing for bankruptcy. To what can we attribute this if not to a prevailing atmosphere of greed and avarice in our society?

But maybe I digress here. A company who wants to pay for a junior draftsman and wants to pay $15 per hour is certainly going to get about what it pays for -- and if that's OK with the company then more power to 'em. But I see companies wanting to hire people with BS degrees and years of experience for not a lot more than that. Is there something wrong with that? You can bet your economic forecasts that there's something wrong with that!!

Mark 'Sporky' Staplet> I'd be interested to know what you all think the pay scale should be for

I have seen jobs posted down here in Florida where they are looking for an Engineer with 10 yrs+ experience in Pro-E, 10 Yrs, exp in Fluid dynamics, another 8 years exp. in FEA, 15 yrs, exp. in Aerospace/automotive/ect and the salary range is $32,000 to $42,000....Its kind of amusing from my point of view since these adds have been running for 2 or 3 years thru the same job recruiters. I have no where near those credentials. I have been in manufacturing starting as a tool maker in 1973 and then into CNC programming and drafting, and finally into modeling and design. I would not get out of bed in the morning for that kind of wage. And fprtunatly, I have had more than a few very good jobs offers recently with a much higher pay scale than that. Problem is when the economy picks up, all the low earners also pick up and leave for more money someplace else. Ill stick to the companies who are willing to start you off at a decent salary and make it worth my while to stay there. The longer I stay, the more valuable I am to that company. After

3-5 years you become a part of there manufacturing team in a sense that you have the knowledge and they want to keep that knowledge in house. ( exception to that rule is an ITW company) Believe me, I have spent many years fixing prints done by $15.00 workers, And that statement was not meant to offend anyone in this group. Im just stating my views from experience. :) Sincerely, Jake Barron

I apologize to those of you who were insulted by the pay rate offered by my client. As someone astutely pointed out, I have no control over the wage. The company is less than one year old, and still in the "start-up" phase. I'm sure that they will be willing to increase their wage scale when they have launched their product. They are certainly not trying to rip anyone off.

$15 an hour would work out to around $31,200 a year at full time - which is a very respectable salary for the Midwest. I suspect that those of you who were shocked live in an area with a much higher cost of living. $31,000 a year won't get you very far if you live on a coast, but around here it is a very comfortable wage. You can buy a four bedroom house here, brand new, with a large yard, for $120,000; $90,000 if you're willing to live in the country. I suspect that you wouldn't be able to say the same in North Carolina.

I hope that no one will let this discussion interfere with his or her interest in the job.

Sincerely, Amy Austin

What brand of drafting board & pencils? How big should the circles for the trees be?

$15/Hr * 20 Hr/week = $300/week. Before taxes & expenses. Call it $15,000 per year minus taxes & expenses & pay your own benefits out of after tax income. If it's 1099 contract pay 15% self employment tax off the top, else 7.5%.

What's left to warm the car at night? Winter is coming ..

Amy, May I remind you of that 20 hour work week? And I'd wager that they will not put that in writing or post a bond to guarantee a minimum duration.

And they would relocate for a part-time temp job (promised, sort of) paying their own relocation costs and dual expenses? To Indiana?

Probably not but she may well be disappointed. Perhaps she can find a local trade-school or JC co-op student of some sort.

Let's run some numbers. $15/Hr * 20 Hr/week = $300/week.

$ 300

- 45 Self-employment tax (We will ignore State & Federal income taxes)

- 140 You can get a reasonable roach motel locally for $20/night, right? LOL

- 70 Eat fancy ... spend $10/day at McDonnalds for 3 meals each day

-------- 45

- 20 Gas & oil for the clunker

- 5 laundry expenses

- 10 per week for really cheap (required minimal) auto ins.

-------- $ 10/Week net income. Not much left over

Did I miss anything in the expenses (besides getting there & back?)

Don't forget, you will need to transfer plates & licence to Indiana. That might cost 10% of the new list price of the car, depending.

Yep.

Educational though, I expect .

BTW, If you cannot find that $20/day motel locally .... you are clearly SOL IMHO .. and $40/day is a really good deal most places. Perhaps you can live in your car until the local police catch you. Perhaps then they would let you out for work-release ... 20 hours per week.

;-> Well, then you'd be getting 3 hots and a cot for free.

Yeah, but thanks to the conservatives that made the anti-whatever laws it would be easier not to do the work. Same benefits .

The job was designed for someone who already lives in this area. I posted it on the off-chance that someone in Indiana reads this forum (and, lo and behold, someone contacted me from this forum who is interested and reasonably nearby). The job is flexible enough that someone could do it and make extra money, while continuing to work for another full time or part time employer. Another gentleman did the job for several weeks, between jobs, and then found a full time job. That's how the position became available. We have no illusions that someone is going to make a career of working 20 hours a week for $15 an hour, but you'd be suprised at how many people are looking for an alternative to a 40 hour work week and a salary. Not everyone is in the rat race, and not everyone needs to work full time. Maybe there's some rich computer guy out there who just wants to keep busy and work a little on the side, but money doesn't make much difference. Maybe there's someone who's working full time and having trouble making ends meet, we're offering him a little extra cash.

If you are not interested, don't e-mail me your resume. I'm not chaining drafters to desks and forcing them to work in sweat-shop like conditions, paying them peanuts and making them work in roach infested motels and drive clunkers. For the love of Pete, people. It's just an alternative. I've never seen a group of people get this irritated over someone presenting them with an opportunity, even if the opportunity wasn't what they were looking for.

This is my final word on this subject. Thanks for an interesting discussion.

Best, Amy Austin

Only one or two people! Don't worry, it's just politics rearing its ugly head where it doesn't really belong. I follow three newsgroups. This one is the only one where politics comes in only very rarely (fingers crossed!). The other two have many more off-topic posts related to politics than they do on-topic posts.

Jerry Steiger Tripod Data Systems

Amy, Your thread was kept alive far longer than it would have been wihout comment, probably drawing more attention to your need .