was long since over< Gee Graybeard, You have heard me talk about my new layout in the North. You should recognize the town, Covelo!
was long since over< Gee Graybeard, You have heard me talk about my new layout in the North. You should recognize the town, Covelo!
month. No problems so far.<
They must have really changed as before a two month lull would have put you off their list!
I was led to believe it was on the order of $100 or so per month. So neither of us knows for sure...
CL
Not too surprisingly, about a days stagecoach travel, east, over the Dos Rios road, in Round Valley. (Stationed there in the Forestry for a couple of months, but then got a job in a machine shop. No contest.) I also spent some time splitting redwood grape stakes, but don't think I want to include that scene. It's one I'd rather not remember. Dad and his partner used to "let" me make the first split on the log, which is done standing on top of it with a maul and wedges. Get a crack started then continue down until it finally splits. I think I'll pass.
Greybeard.
In the shop under the house there are two lathes, one mill, one radial drill, and a shaper. If you have more mchine tools, then bully for you.
Yet again, you miss the point. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you personally need DCC. Comprehension lessons, perhaps. I am pointing out to you that your observation that "most people will pay a little (or a lot) more to get the good stuff" holds equally true for DCC as for any other hobby purchase. Your repeated assertion that DCC is too expensive is merely your subjective opinion about a product that we both agree you don't need, but which others reckon is the good stuff.
My repeated assertion is that for many, DCC is too expensive. By the same token, I don't feel that my .00001" Johansen Mikrokator is too expensive, but I feel sure that there are many that would disagree.
(My machine count is now 27, 12 of which are lathes ranging from 1
1/2" X 4" to a 14 X 36 Monarch. Don't ask for a breakdown on the rest, I get confused.)Greybeard
But you realize that the MR market is quite different from the model airplane market. The best models in MR are mass produced by the big companies (for example, the Athearn Genesis F's are considered to be the best F's ever, in any medium). The best drives are Kato. And Atlas is doing outstanding work these days with their products. About the only thing thing small independant manufacturers are doing these days are craftsman kits, and the big manufacturers are staying away from them (mostly because they wouldn't sell enough).
Ah, I understand now. Sorry, I didn't know you meant *that* far into the sticks...
Paul A. Cutler III
************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
best F's ever, in any medium).< Remember that Athearn did not design or develop or cut the molds for this product, it was acquired by Athearn within the framework of dual production. I don't mean this to be a bad thing (good actually) but all was actually done by a small independent manufacture!
And how long did Lubliner actually advertise "A-units coming soon!"? He was never able to come out with it by himself, and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he ever had a drive for his B-units... BTW, all of the above kinda proves my point. Here we have a small, independant company not being able to actually produce his models being bought out by a much larger company. And what happens? The much larger company comes through and actually makes the product, and makes it better. This is in total opposition to the "big company buys small company and destroys it" argument I heard earlier.
Paul A. Cutler III
************* Weather Or No Go New Haven *************
produce his models being bought out by a much larger company.< While I don't really disagree with what you say it's has nothing to do with Paul not being able to bring this model to market. It has more to do with it didn't interest him anymore. In the deal Paul sells the undecs but it would be interesting to know _who_ really owns the molds!
True.
I've reviewed my agreement with Horizon and there is nothing to that effect. In fact when we started we might have ordered twice a month. These were small orders for the popular Firebird series of electric R/C planes. That was all we got.
Your discount above the standard is set by your average monthly order over a period of months. If I did not order for a month it would effect my average not close my account. As you said it was a rumor and story. In this case Myth or fiction your choice. They are in fact among the easiest to deal with. I had my account set up with them in a much shorter time then some others (wome of whom would make your SOB list).
I don't know about the Domain name but they did revise on other criteria including those who repaired trains.
They sent the cameras to dealers who inquired about becoming dealers. I seriously doubt any professionally run shop would have stooped to such photos.
Define High End Hobby Shops. I deal with them every week so I must be high end at 2,000sf.
Actually these folks never really bothered me. I actually like to go myself to these shows and see whats out there. I find my pricing to be fairly competetive to whats being sold.
True it's your opinion and it is their business. I do not think they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Dave
Each and every vendor I deal with usually asks for similar info. Pictures inside and out, copy of lease, yellow page ads, bank info, references, etc. This is hardly exclusive to Horizon. In fact I keep a file of my store pics and info just for mailing in. There is no enforced minimuns to purchase. Generally a distributor will require an opening order and $100 net shippable after that. Now if I spend more I will generally get a larger discount percentage. I have only ever had one manufacturer tell me I had to buy so much in a certain time to maintain relations. Guess what? I told them bye!
It really amazes me how some of the hearsay info is bandied about as factual. BTW this entire thread is very much along the lines of the one last year after Athearn was purchased. I'm still waiting for the sky to fall from that one.
Dave
No. Ive been here. Just thought this had a slight chance of dying (OK a fat chance). Basically it's deja vu time only MDC as the subject instead of Athearn. How many folks have actually had any difficulty getting Athearn products? The kits that were dead are still produced and I still get them. Yes the RTR (ready to roll) has made significant inroads. But that's a fact with quite a few aspects of the Hobby industry. Gas cars are RTR and planes are ARF (almost ready to fly). More folks are actually buying these becasue they want to run and don't want to spent 40 hours building. It's just a different aspect. The person who still wants to superdeatil and scratchbuild still comes in and still buys raw wood and plastic or $60 in diesel detail parts to "Cannonize" a project. BTW the MDC N scale is coming in under the Athearn logo and production. This gives Athearns N scale line a boost.
Dave Henk
I deal with Horizon (as well as Great Planes, Walthers, and many more vendors) each and every day. They have very specific requirements to become a dealer. The fact that you have a ton of money and no retail store will in fact disqualify you to Horizon. Some of the others are a bit more liberal. There was site in California that sells mail order and brags of the lowest prices. Someone mentioned these as an example of mail order getting what they want. What they didn't know was that they actually have had a retail store (under a different name) for many years. I can point out a couple of mail order places that have been around for years that advertise heavily in RR magazines that only have Athearn and MDC at what's on hand. They will not get anymore and I'm fairly certain money was not an issue.
Dave
And any well run store will generally not have antiquated stock laying around. You have to price it to move. When my Art Depart went south as anticipated from moving the store closer to Michaels and a couple of large Art stores I had 30% off for a month followed by 50% off. Anything that didn't sell (quite a bit) I gave to the local High School art departmen which was more than happen to acquire it. I have to pay taxes on my inventory held at the end of the year so there is no way I'm allowing my shop to become a museum for old kits. If it doesn't move I'll make someone an "offer they can't refuse" and get something else.
You have zero chance of seeing that happen.
Dave
Since when is Athearn Genesis, Bachmann Spectrum, Kato, Proto200, and Broadway Limited considered toy store crap??
That's a negative. In fact they currently have 1,177 kits on hand in their Illinois warehouse (they also have a west coast one as well). I have seen nothing about discontinuing the kits. The same goes for Athearns Blue box kits. These are still in production.
Dave
I'd sure like to know how you can come to the above conclusion. Horizon actually does quite a bit to support the smaller stores (I'm one of those). Horizon does control who can buy from them In this case it's the Train show sellers and basement mail order operations. They do this to protect their "brick and mortar" stores. They are not likely to force Walthers out of business. Walthers has greatly increased their own proprietary lines as well as adding new manufacturers regularly. Just for a quick comparison. Horizon currently lists 10,272 HO scale items,
1,352 G Scale, 3,611 N scale. and 4,649 O scale. This is a drop in the bucket compared to Walthers. They have over 10,000 HO scale items and I stopped after MFR #186. They number up to MFR #949. The MDC Climax and Box cabs someone was moaning about not being able to get were antiquated mechanisms whose days had long passed. Even NWSL would touch it for upgrades.Dave Henk
They're not much different in most respects. If someone wants a good quality product, you won't get it from the big names. Where the smaller companies have an option, if something moves slow, they can produce very few of them and maintian high quality. The bigger companies have their bottom line, and if something isn't over that mark, they don't think twice about dropping it. Anything that contributes below a certain percentage of their profit is dropped, the effort is supposedly put into one or more of their more profitable lines. Great for them, but it always leads to fewer and less diverse product lines.
I've worked making dies, and reworking them, they're not cheap for anyone. The problem in the bigger companies, they don't have the room or the will, floor space costs money too, to keep dies that have proven to be slow movers. Then the thing that I consider almost criminal, they send them to a recycler and that product is lost forever. The smaller, one or two man companies will try to hold on to them, maybe someday to recoup some of their costs, but how often they do, I don't really know.
I don't know much about diesels, I've got a few but don't plan on ever seeing them on track. Not my thing, so I can't say anything about their drives. With the steam, I haven't seen a drive that I've been satisfied with yet, but it doesn't bother me to make what ever I have to that will make it run like I want. The "supersonic 0-4-0" somehow doesn't look right.
Yep, where days are long, tempers are short and jobs don't exist. The land of the gyppo logger and fly by night sawmill operator. Fortunes are made or lost by, well, forget that. I saw a lot of them lost but never saw any made. Optimistic hopelessness rules. Best thing I ever did was get OUT!
Greybeard
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