Google, questions and laziness

I'm truly amazed at how lazy people have become. One would think that with the ability to find almost any bit of information using Google or
any other search engine, people would stop asking basic questions. I can only assume that people are so busy enjoying their "train hobby" they can not find the time to search Google or any other engine to get their questions answered. Or is this just an off-shot of the "i want it now" generation who believe spending a few hours exploring search results is a waste of time. Don't get me wrong. I'd love to teach someone my 35 years of cabinet/furniture making experience. I just can not find someone who wants to take the time to learn from the beginning. My .5 cents worth. Mike M
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On 1/10/2010 12:28 PM, mike mueller wrote:

    I believe it is due to the fact that it is far easier to ask real people for information rather than attempt to phrase the question in just the right way, for Google to narrow the possible answers down to less than two hundred thousand and some odd results. If one doesn't understand the human response, it is also easier to add to the question and receive an answer.
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On 1/10/2010 9:33 AM Brian Smith spake thus:

>

Yes. What the OP seems to miss is that the purpose of newsgroups like this is to exchange information. By some people's reckoning, newsgroups shouldn't even exist--after all, you can just Google it, right?
Wrong. There's the problem of familiarity with terms for those who may not have complete knowledge of the subject. Plus the fact that no search engine is guaranteed to give you the answer you're looking for in understandable terms among the first few results; more than likely, one will have to look through many pages of unrelated or poorly-presented information before finding something helpful.
I'm really tired of hearing people reply and complain that the questioner should just use Google. My standard reply is becoming this: if you're responding to a question, you can either
1) Reply with helpful information, or 2) STFU
--
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*snip*

At one time, the gentle prods to look stuff up with a search engine were intended to teach. Every once in a great while I'll actually look something up the OP requested and then say a Google search for "plz send me teh codez" turned up this site: www.example.com
It's the same idea as replying to test messages that belong in alt.test and saying something funny like "Test failed. This should have appeared in alt.test and not rec.models.railroad."
However, don't confuse attempting to teach with just plain laziness. Telling someone to use a search engine without giving more direction is quite useless.
Puckdropper
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:45:52 -0800, David Nebenzahl

Funny how you can't even seem to take your own advice, mate. -- Ray
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mike mueller wrote:

Google and the rest of the search engines only provide useful results if you enter the proper search terms for the subject matter you are seeking. Someone new to modeling may not have the basic knowledge necessary to select useful search terms, and therefore may be frustrated in attempts to get a question answered on their own. OTOH, there *are* truly lazy people out there too.
--

Rick Jones
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hai, i run trains with dcc.dcc work poorly, but upgrade is available? plz send me the upgrade codez.
It's been around forever. ;-)
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mike mueller wrote:

You seemed to miss the meaning of my post and question. The purpose of Google is no different than what a library once was. One used to go to a library and do "research". Yes, you would ask the librarian where to start. And yes a newsgroup can be considered a librarian. However, I'm talking about the person who does not make any attempt to research a subject. The person who would ask a simple question that can be researched on the internet.
A week ago someone posted 6 questions. Each was the same, just about a different railroad and how he wanted to be authentic. If he had typed that into Google, he may have had to wade through pages before getting his answer, but isn't that what research is? A few of you found the guy his info by doing his Google research
If you used a library, you would look in a card file for a key word and than wade through thousands of little cards locating your information. This goes back to my question. Is it laziness? It's easier to just ask for the answer than to spend the time researching the subject.
You got a DCC problem with Digitrax. Try the Digitrax web site. Then there's Yahoo groups, than theres Mr DCC. Answers can be found if you look . It just requires time and a little brain use. I guess I get more satisfaction researching and issue until I find the answer than to just give up and ask someone for the answer. Mike M
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On 1/10/2010 9:33 PM mike mueller spake thus:

So given all that, just what do you think the proper role is of this newsgroup? Is it only for respected regulars who know a lot about model railroading and can properly do research before daring to ask a question here? No newbies allowed?
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Practically every single Usenet poster defines that question for themselves. (And then many of them try to impose that answer on everyone else "for their own good".)
I'm with you in that I'm not normally annoyed by people who ask questions that they could have just as easily Googled. After all; asking a question on Usenet is more likely to get you a wide range of opinions from knowledgable folks than Googling normally would, and no one's holding a gun to your head and *forcing* you to answer a question if you don't want to. (On the other hand, there are some posters who begin by *demanding* answers and/or starting arguments with anyone who gives them an answer they don't care for, and those guys would probably be better off being used for mulch.)
Now: it's true that the OP who asked the multiple cut-and-paste questions was skirting the edge of good manners by asking in 15 seperate posts what he could have more easily asked in one, but the actual questions he was asking were not really out of line for this Newsgroup.
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On 1/11/2010 12:36 AM Twibil spake thus:

I agree, although I'd say they were skirting the edge of good sense instead. Probably just didn't realize how ridiculous making more than a dozen somewhat redundant posts was, compared with putting everything in one well-formatted message. (Of course, by now this person is probably shaking their head and saying "what a bunch of jerks!".)
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That too.
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wrote:

I think the way he asked the questions was the main reason he hardly got any answers.When I first saw the posts he made I was thinking "thats got to be a spammer or a troll".I do agree with mike in some ways, and I believe that had the OP in the said posts done a bit of homework he would have had to ask maybe less questions and maybe more specific , and he would have had more answers. I agree with David however when he says what else are Newsgroups for, plus it would get real quiet here if everyone only asked stuff they couldn't find googling.
Greetz Jan
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On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:40:49 +0100, Jan ( Bouli ) Van Gerwen wrote:

Yep - my first reaction was to double check for a website address in his messages and post a big TROLL ALERT if I'd seen one - it may have been just an unfortunate combination of style and unfamiliarity - but the repeated template was definitely tiresome.
If only my old rubber stamp that says "REPETITIOUSLY REDUNDANT" worked on newsgroups . . .
--
Steve

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I have belonged to over a dozen forums, not Google Groups, on different subjects for at least ten years and this is quite common. Google Groups are for Trolls, Garbage mouths. It is rare to find any useful information in Google Groups. There are Clueless who have to be led by the hand, many who will not read instruction manuals and become insulted when you tell them the instructions are in the manual. Many are Clueless about doing any kind of search, Google or in the forum archives. Many get an answer and you never know if the answer solved their problem. Many have no clue about giving back to the forum community. Just take and run. I do not see that changing. It is part of the culture of humanity.
r
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On 1/11/2010 7:55 PM Rich spake thus:

[...]
Maybe more part of the culture of Google Groups.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

David I believe a news group should be like a librarian. There to help and lead. Not to go to the card file for you, go get the book for you,read the book for you and then give you the answer. I myself over the last year have posted questions when I can not find the information while searching. Usually someone will suggest a different approach. I than say thank you and search again. I don't believe I have ever asked point blank for someone to spew all they know on a subject because that was easier than exploring and learning myself. I guess I grew up and went to collage during an age when you went to the library and spent the time researching a subject yourself. I see this give me now, instant gratification attitude every day. I becoming and " Grumpy Old Coot" I guess Mike M
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mike mueller wrote:

I'll follow this up. News groups are for sharing information. Someone just posted a IHC/AHM question about the company closing. This is the kind of information that benefits all and is not easily discerned with a Google search. I came upon this information months ago, accidentally while trying to find parts for a few Heislers I have. Mike M
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You raise a good question... I Googled it, but didn't find the answer to it.
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 08:28:51 -0800, mike mueller

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