How Small Radius Can An 0-4-0 Go?

mark_newton wrote:


Ah Yes, a good point indeed. The term was thus used in the USA on railroads, in THAT case at least. All of which just serves to confuse things further. It is now clear that a consistant definition of the terms in question are NOT to be found in USA, British, or Australian realms. COMMON usage is certainly different, but there are exceptions on both sides of both 'ponds'.
Dan Mitchell ===========
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Prior to this discussion, I had only heard the term bogie in relation to the roller assemblies that run inside a tank or dozer track and actually bear the weight of the vehicle.
I certainly never heard it in relation to railroads. My granddad worked for the L&N for 50 years and never once mentioned a bogie, although I heard a lot about "trucks" over the years.
--
===========================================================
Norman Morgan <> http://www.norm-morgan.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Norman Morgan wrote:

That is/was my experience also.
The term "bogie" is/was much in use in the USA, but just not applied to railroads. Really, not EVER as far as I can remember.
Here, a bogie is a set of two or more wheels in some form of articulated frame. As in tank suspensions, multi-axle motor-truck rear-ends, etc. Not fundamentally different in definition ... just never applied to railroads.
What others call a railroad bogie is here called a 'truck'. Since the term 'bogie' likely originated in Britain, prior to widespread RR use in the USA, why the term was not adopted here is beyond me. And where did the USA RR term 'truck' originate from?
Anyway, for most purposes: USA RR Truck = British (etc.) RR Bogie.
Dan Mitchell ===========
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

From the same source that created bogie. They mean almost the same thing. A truck is a set of wheels designed to carry a load which is not necessarily integral to the truck, e.g., a two-wheeled hand truck as used in a warehouse.
The limited etymology that I have on the word bogie simply says that bogie is chiefly British. I suspect it may have originated as slang. The Brits are very proud of their slang. They've even developed Cockney into a virtual language of its own. The Antipodeans are fairly good at it too, I might add.
In England and Australia a railroad truck rides on bogies, or, it is integral with its bogie in the case of a two-axle truck. In North America we don't use two-axle equipment, and their truck is our gondola. Our gondolas typically ride on a pair of two-axle trucks. A few gondola types ride on a pair of three-axle trucks.
-----------However, You will find bogies on semi-trucks and trailers all over the North American continent. Thus: If it runs on the railroad under a railcar or locomotive, it is a truck. If it runs on the highway, under a tractor or trailer, it is a bogie. OK, now, truck is English (mas o menos) while gondola is Italian. So, why do we speak English, but call the tub-on-wheels a gondola instead of a truck? Although it would be confusing to use the same word to mean two different things in the same context. Yeah, that would be a tough one.
Froggy,
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Froggy, @, thepond..com wrote:

You mean a "wagon" rides on bogies.

?
"Gondola" = "open wagon".

No, a "truck" is a single axle flexible carrying frame.

Yes, why do you do that?

You do that already: "Truck" = part of a railway vehicle or a complete road vehicle for carriage of goods. "Car" = a complete railway vehicle oor a road vehicle.
Next we could have a go at "cargo", "freight", "goods" and "shipping" ;-)
Regards, Greg.P.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greg Procter wrote:
>> In England and Australia a railroad truck rides on bogies,
> You mean a "wagon" rides on bogies.
Or a truck rides on bogies. Or a van.
>> or, it is integral with its bogie in the case of a two-axle truck.
> ?
A four-wheel open or flat wagon.
>> In North America we don't use two-axle equipment, and their truck >> is our gondola.
> "Gondola" = "open wagon".
A bogie open wagon or truck in the UK or Australia. Except for South Australia, where they had an American commissioner in the 1920s. They call them gondolas. Just to be different.
>> Our gondolas typically ride on a pair of two-axle trucks. A few >> gondola types ride on a pair of three-axle trucks. >> >> -----------However, You will find bogies on semi-trucks and >> trailers all over the North American continent. Thus: If it runs on >> the railroad under a railcar or locomotive, it is a truck.
> No, a "truck" is a single axle flexible carrying frame.
Or a four-wheel open wagon. Or a bogie open wagon. Or, to confuse the issue *even further*, a truck can be the four-wheeled underframe of a single-truck tramcar/streetcar. Or the bogies under a double-truck tramcar. Hence the Peckham Metropolitan truck, or Brill 27G trucks.
>> If it runs on the highway, under a tractor or trailer, it is a >> bogie. OK, now, truck is English (mas o menos) while gondola is >> Italian. So, why do we speak English, but call the tub-on-wheels a >> gondola instead of a truck?
> Yes, why do you do that?
Because they're both low-sided, open-topped vehicles that load and unload from the top?* That seems as good an explanation as any other.
* Yes, I know, doesn't count for GS or drop-bottom gondolas.
>> Although it would be confusing to use the same word to mean two >> different things in the same context. Yeah, that would be a tough >> one.
> You do that already: "Truck" = part of a railway vehicle or a > complete road vehicle for carriage of goods. "Car" = a complete > railway vehicle oor a road vehicle.
> Next we could have a go at "cargo", "freight", "goods" and "shipping" > ;-)
Yeah, we could have a lot of fun with those!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark_newton wrote:

Sure, there are lots of vehicles that ride on bogies. The list would have been too long and at least two thirds of those would be wagons.

Those don't have a bogie.

Possibly that's the only use of the term "gondola" outside the US.

Ok, everyone is wrong ;-)

No, we now know what you mean, but the question was why do you call your open wagons/trucks after Italian smooth water craft?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We have repeatedly said that we don't know. Possibly because the thing looks somewhat like an actual gondola from Italy. We have more Italians in the Northeast US than they do in Italy, so maybe that's where the name came from.
Froggy,
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Froggy, @, thepond..com wrote:

Given that this is an open forum, isn't it possible that someone here does know?

Wow - I don't think I see that! ;-)

ok.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greg Procter wrote:

I think a clue can be found here:
One entry found for gondola. Main Entry: gondola Pronunciation: 'gn-d&-l& (usual for sense 1), gn-'dO- Function: noun Etymology: Italian dialect (Venetian), probably from Middle Greek kontoura small vessel
1 : a long narrow flat-bottomed boat with a high prow and stern used on the canals of Venice 2 : a heavy flat-bottomed boat used on New England rivers and on the Ohio and Mississippi rivers 3 : a railroad car with no top, a flat bottom, and fixed sides that is used chiefly for hauling heavy bulk commodities
To me, it's a reasonable assumption that the name for the rail vehicle was derived from the name of the river boat.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark_newton wrote:

Ahhh, I see a link!

Yes, that makes sense. It's also a reasonable assumption that the US river boats were named after Italian river boats.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

For the same reason we call free-standing store shelving units gondolas...
CL
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Cheery Littlebottom wrote:

YOU DO?!? Why do you do that?
Regards, Greg.P.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:04:25 +1200, Greg Procter wrote:

'cause we're seppos and we don't have to say why, so there!
--
Steve

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Caple wrote:

Aww, so what is a "seppos"?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:05:51 +1200, Greg Procter wrote:

Don't be so provincial.
--
Steve

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Caple wrote:

No really!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Snake = Joe Blake Yank = Septic Tank ergo "Seppo" Some kind of Cane Toad slang.
You know how those Cane Toads are . . . . .
Froggy,
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greg Procter wrote:
>>> No, we now know what you mean, but the question was why do you >>> call your open wagons/trucks after Italian smooth water craft?
>> For the same reason we call free-standing store shelving units >> gondolas...
> YOU DO?!? Why do you do that?
I reckon it must be common usage in retail worldwide. They're also called gondolas in Australia, New Zealand, and the UK, that I know of.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mark_newton wrote:

I've never heard it in my 55 years (in NZ) - however I've never been in the retail trade.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.