How Small Radius Can An 0-4-0 Go?

'cause we're seppos and we don't have to say why, so there!

fruit salad on ice?

Froggy,

Take Greg at his word:

pedant - one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge

He applies his scant knowledge without thought. His pedantic ramblings are just who he is. Selectively choosing and distorting the facts to fit his predetermined point of view are just a by product of his condition.

Paul

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Err no, that's "bogey".

Err no again. An unidentifiable aircraft is a called a "bogey".

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

It's OK Paul. We're just having a bit of fun on a slow day. Don't take any of it too seriously. It may sound serious at times, but it's nothing much more than repartee for amusement's sake. Froggy,

I reckon it must be common usage in retail worldwide. They're also called gondolas in Australia, New Zealand, and the UK, that I know of.

Ah Yes, a good point indeed. The term was thus used in the USA on railroads, in THAT case at least. All of which just serves to confuse things further. It is now clear that a consistant definition of the terms in question are NOT to be found in USA, British, or Australian realms. COMMON usage is certainly different, but there are exceptions on both sides of both 'ponds'.

Dan Mitchell ============

Sure do! ... Whee, another 'red herring' to chase! Store 'gondolas' are not generally 'open topped' in any sense at all ... just a shelving unit, often with a pegboard back and multiple adjustable flat shelves. Often they are double faced, with shelving on both sides of a vertical 'spine'. Not much like either an Italian boat or a USA RR gondola.

Dan Mitchell ============

True, but the early ones were sort-of like either a RR gondola or a boat. Just an open basket hanging beneath the balloon portion. Later they became enclosed, streamlined, and blended right into the airship's envelope. In that later form they were not at all like a 'gondola', but the name was already set.

This is more understandable (to me at least) than much of the other usage being discussed.

Dan Mitchell ============

Looking at the overall 'big picture' North Dakota is indeed rather flat ... but locally it can be quite precipitous. There are some big Coulees (valleys/canyons) in various places. The longeset (1609 feet) trestle on the old Great Northern Ry. is across one of these, near the middle of the state, just west of Minot. And, while the G.N. certainly had taller trestles, this one is respectable in that regard (102 feet high).

Also, the western part of the state is very rough, in the large 'badlands' areas. There are no tall mountains to be sure, but the topography there is ANYTHING but 'flat'.

Dan Mitchell ============

Sure - that's the norm, isn't it? :-)

If you're in the NW corner then look me up!

Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

The reason four wheel trucks caught on in North America is for the same reason that the 4-4-0 was so popular early in North American railway history.

It's nothing to do with the land being flat, or hilly, or even mountainous, it was the quality of the track that was the problem.

North American track was so poorly laid, on untreated, with many times round ties, with little or no ballast laid on a profile that closely followed the contours of the land, as it still does today. Therefore, ridged four wheeled, two axle cars, both passenger and freight, couldn't stay on the track, even at the low speeds then typical, as they had a limited amount of twisting action before derailing.

Hence the urgent need for something far more flexible than rigid wheel based cars and locomotives. Thus was born the four wheeled truck and the 4-4-0 design of locomotive, both very flexible and able to stay on the track.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

The reason four wheel trucks caught on in North America is for the same reason that the 4-4-0 was so popular early in North American railway history.

It's nothing to do with the land being flat, or hilly, or even mountainous, it was the quality of the track that was the problem.

North American track was so poorly laid, on untreated, with many times round ties, with little or no ballast laid on a profile that closely followed the contours of the land, as it still does today. Therefore, ridged four wheeled, two axle cars, both passenger and freight, couldn't stay on the track, even at the low speeds then typical, as they had a limited amount of twisting action before derailing.

Hence the urgent need for something far more flexible than rigid wheel based cars and locomotives. Thus was born the four wheeled truck and the 4-4-0 design of locomotive, both very flexible and able to stay on the track.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

Metropolitan never conformed to the normal British arrogance of assuming everyone should speak their language. :-) (quickly searches for tin helmet)

Russian wagon design went from British based to US based before WWI.

True.

Get your head out of your arse - I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Certainly, however I was trying to keep it simple to start with.

It's fairly obvious that track laid on flat land will follow the contours!

You're not by any chance suggesting that non-flat land is involved???

That's normally accounted for by the use of springing in the suspension.

Actually, the 3 axle locomotive, such as the Norris 4-2-0 and Baldwin 2-4-0 were the answer to those problems. The 4-4-0 followed somewhat later.

Regards, Greg.P.

I see you're not prepared to put any original thought into this situation.

Regards, Greg.P.

Newhouse)

It's just as Froggy says. The only serious bit was the question regarding US use/misuse of the term Talgo.

Regards, Greg.P.

I've never heard it in my 55 years (in NZ) - however I've never been in the retail trade.

vehicle to which

standards. I think

equalized and any body

directly (and rigidly)

So you're not prepared to take responsibility for all US utterances???