How Small Radius Can An 0-4-0 Go?

"Roger T." wrote:


Get your head out of your arse - I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Certainly, however I was trying to keep it simple to start with.

It's fairly obvious that track laid on flat land will follow the contours! <sheesh> You're not by any chance suggesting that non-flat land is involved???

That's normally accounted for by the use of springing in the suspension.

Actually, the 3 axle locomotive, such as the Norris 4-2-0 and Baldwin 2-4-0 were the answer to those problems. The 4-4-0 followed somewhat later.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Will ingore the the lack of manner in the above statement, even though it's not unexpected given the writer.

I now think you're back pedelling. You stated that the UK is flat, it most definately isn't.
I don't think yu made no mention of poorly laid track.

Once again, you demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. In the UK, railways in general didn't follow the lay of the land, they were built to be as flat as possible. On gently rolling "flat" ground, shallow cuts and low fills were built to keep the railway as flat as possible. In North American on gently rolling "flat ground", the railways just followed the gentle rolling of the land with, in many or even most cases, little effort was made to keep the grade at zero. You can see that even today with the train gently going up hill and down over perhaps a mile of its length, something you rarely see in the UK as a grade would be a several mile long climd of decent, not several grade changes in a mile that you commonly see in North America..

I don't understand your point here. "Flat land": is far from flat, it's usually full of gently rolling "hills", perhaps only a few feet high, but they're there anyway. The praires are not flat, for example. .

Once again, you demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. A railway vehicle on truck/bogies is far more flexible that one on a rigid four wheel chassis. Springing only compensates for very small twisting motions, unlike a truck/bogie which is much more forgiving.

I'll agree with the above but the point is that the bogie/leading truck design is still far more forgiving than of the twisting action imparted by track that is not almost perfectly level across the gauge. Dunno the technical term for it.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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"Roger T." wrote:

Relative to New Zealand (where I live) it is flat flat flat.

True, I did not.

If the land is flat then absolutely any alignment will "follow the contours".

Sure.
I think we've wandered a very long way from the point.

It all depends - the railway I model (Koeniglich Wuerttembergishe Staats Eisenbahn) initially used rolling stock imported from the USa. The terrain was hilly and the alignment neccessarily twisting but the track bed was well formed. The advantage of bogies was that they allowed the rolling stock to more easily follow the track alignment. By the time the extra vertical movement of individual axles of a bogie/truck is required over the individual journal movement of a 2 axle wagon, you have _serious_ track problems.

Damn! The word won't come for me either! :-( "Twist" pretty well covers it.
As in the US, the KWStsE developed equalization to keep the wheels on the rails (vertical) and various extremes for horizontal alignment (eg Klose), whereas British (locos) generally relied on simple unequalized spring suspension for vertical movement and frame flexing for horizontal axle movement. (yeah yeah, there were lots of exceptions :-)

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Once was enough - Once was enough...
Oooppss!
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:)

oops..... Beowulf
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Play/Say it again Sam/Roger.
Delete some/all of the above where applicable.
David.
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Will ingore the the lack of manner in the above statement, even though it's not unexpected given the writer.

I now think you're back pedelling. You stated that the UK is flat, it most definately isn't.
I don't think yu made no mention of poorly laid track.

Once again, you demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. In the UK, railways in general didn't follow the lay of the land, they were built to be as flat as possible. On gently rolling "flat" ground, shallow cuts and low fills were built to keep the railway as flat as possible. In North American on gently rolling "flat ground", the railways just followed the gentle rolling of the land with, in many or even most cases, little effort was made to keep the grade at zero. You can see that even today with the train gently going up hill and down over perhaps a mile of its length, something you rarely see in the UK as a grade would be a several mile long climd of decent, not several grade changes in a mile that you commonly see in North America..

I don't understand your point here. "Flat land": is far from flat, it's usually full of gently rolling "hills", perhaps only a few feet high, but they're there anyway. The praires are not flat, for example. .

Once again, you demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about. A railway vehicle on truck/bogies is far more flexible that one on a rigid four wheel chassis. Springing only compensates for very small twisting motions, unlike a truck/bogie which is much more forgiving.

I'll agree with the above but the point is that the bogie/leading truck design is still far more forgiving than of the twisting action imparted by track that is not almost perfectly level across the gauge. Dunno the technical term for it.
-- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
The reason four wheel trucks caught on in North America is for the same reason that the 4-4-0 was so popular early in North American railway history.
It's nothing to do with the land being flat, or hilly, or even mountainous, it was the quality of the track that was the problem.
North American track was so poorly laid, on untreated, with many times round ties, with little or no ballast laid on a profile that closely followed the contours of the land, as it still does today. Therefore, ridged four wheeled, two axle cars, both passenger and freight, couldn't stay on the track, even at the low speeds then typical, as they had a limited amount of twisting action before derailing.
Hence the urgent need for something far more flexible than rigid wheel based cars and locomotives. Thus was born the four wheeled truck and the 4-4-0 design of locomotive, both very flexible and able to stay on the track. -- Cheers Roger T.
Home of the Great Eastern Railway http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra /
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Daniel A. Mitchell schrieb:

We use it for communication between (German/French-speaking) European and Chinese companies. I guess it can be used in such situations where English is a means of communication between countries with no other language spoken by both.
--
tobias benjamin khler ____________________________________ snipped-for-privacy@uncia.de
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tobias b khler wrote:

If you asked the Chinese to create a truck to go under a wagon they might create a mangled Volvo/Mack or for a truck to go under a car perhaps a car transporter truck!
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Greg Procter schrieb:

I hope they ask again before starting to work :)
--
tobias benjamin khler ____________________________________ snipped-for-privacy@uncia.de
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tobias b khler wrote:

A crumpled Volvo and a derailed nuclear waste wagon beside the tracks at a level crossing might make an interesting diorama! Imagine the varied lighting effects you could include. =8^))))
Regards, Greg.P.
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DaveW wrote:

The only term that stumped/misled me for a long time was "gas-electric". I wondered what sort of gas they were using, where the gas bottles were stored and what pressure they were using.
I've since figured it out but am left wondering what you call gas powered vehicles.
Regards, Greg.P.
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Greg Procter wrote:
huge snip

We call them Congressmen of course!
Or did you mean something a vehicle powered an internal combustion engine fueled with propane or compressed natural gas? I don't know that we have a specific term. They are after all, rare.
Regards,
DAve
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DaveW wrote:

That's the sort of thing!

Sure, but even rare birds should have names. :-)
Regards, Greg.P.
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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:17:35 +1200, Greg Procter wrote:

But are they "New In Box"?
--
Steve

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Steve Caple wrote:

The price is reasonable - for anyone with more money than sense!
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Bob May wrote:

There have3 been published photos of an 0-4-0 going around a silver dollar for the inner rail.
Howard R Garner
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Thank you all for your wonderful information. I am going to use it all. And further to experiment with some track tacked down to a board. After all, its' only mid August (: next thing you know, Christmas will be here.
I really appreciate all the informative posts. And all the ways to look at and consider my proposed situation. And which are helpful, not only for this project, but for others. I hope to contribute to help someone else.
I was thinking of two track type plans: One an irregular "peanut" shaped loop, that would be all curves and no straights. And run diagonally across the 41" X 41" square space. The main fun would be the little town of lighted buildings and scenery, around the tree. And this would be conducive to slow running which would fit this tiny layout just fine.
And the other considered plan would be a "folded" figure eight, much like this one found at Thor Sheil's most wonderful web site (the fourth one down).
http://www.thortrains.net/yule/yuleg44a.html
BTW do not miss this mother of all toy and model trains layout page.
http://www.thortrains.net/index.html
I'm 56 and grew up with the Washington DC and Baltimore MD Christmas layouts of my Dad, Uncles, Grandfathers and older cousins. This little kid was so delighted and permanently influenced - to the good! I custom painted and set up a small LGB layout under the Christmas tree at the church I joined a couple of years ago in the community where I have settled down. You could not believe the joy and response of the folks there. It was fun to watch all the little kids, including the gray haired pastor (: down on hands and knees, enjoying the train. These folks had never experienced an "electric train" before. And they are all awaiting the new one for this year. Thor's web site captures and promotes this wonderful hobby, just like I remember my experience when I was a kid.
Keep this hobby and the joy alive.
Best Regards,
Robert
Arlington VA
rhsbDOThomeATverizonDOTnet
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I love the stories about the B&O docksider model on the six inch hat! Thanks Group
Best Regards,
Robert
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