Possibly dumb question?

I would imagine that they would all face toward the center of the car, so they would be accessible. If it 'twere facing the coupler, where would a body stand to turn it?

The Seabat wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Actually I meant when the cars are assembled into a train, are the ends of the car on which the brake wheels mounted facing toward the engine or caboose? Railroad dependent? AAR rules? Union rules? Don't matter?

Frank Tauss

Gray Ghost skriver:

Let's think:

Du you see any turntables for cars, so they can turn them around, to make the brakes point "the right way"?

I don't - so I think it doen't matter.

Klaus

We've had this discusion before - "doesn't matter" is the correct answer.

Cheers,

Mark.

"Gray Ghost" wrote

I don't think it normally matters. At least I've never heard of anyone arraigning a freight train with that in mind.

That said, there _are_ some passenger cars that do have a well-defined front and rear*, and in those cases you could say that the brake wheels were always on either the front or the rear of the car. (In fact, entire passenger trains were commonly turned on a wye at the ends of their runs rather then just turning some of the individual cars.)

*Observations, most RPOs, most dome cars, diners, Etc.

Pete

"The Seabat" wrote

On the end sill, or on the brake platform provided for exactly that purpose.

Brake wheel locations evolved over time; with passenger cars originally having them located on the open end-platforms, much like a caboose. After the open platforms became enclosed vestibules, most of the brake wheels were placed inside as you speculated above, but some railroads -notably the Santa Fe- chose to leave them out on the ends of their passenger cars where the customers couldn't fiddle with them. (How they expected the train crew to tighten them down in case of losing the air brakes is a very good question.)

By the time lightweight cars arrived in the late 1930s, nearly all of the manual wheels had migrated to the inside, although I'm not certain whether this was either governmentally mandated or a universal practice.

Freight cars started out with vertical brake shafts that terminated in a brake wheel that extended about a foot above the roof of box cars and the like; the idea being that a brakeman could run along the cartops tightening them down every forty feet or so. On a swaying train. At night. With ice all over the running boards. Whee.

After enough brakemen fell off, froze, went between the cars, or otherwise became suddenly and inexplicably absent from their duties, the air brake was developed and brake wheels eventually moved down to mountings on the ends of the cars, but still up near the cartops; just in case.

Since the goobermint outlawed roofwalks in the early 60s (?), brakewheels are now mounted much lower, but are most commonly still found on the ends of freight cars.

Pete

They probably leave the factory all facing the same way. With interchange, triangular junctions etc they will slowly become randomised, unless they are only operated on a limited range of routes.

Greg.P.

there is no set direction for brake wheels. The crews are not about to turn a car to make the wheel face east so in any given train you'll see: AB, BA, AB, AB, BA etc. with B being the brake end and A the other end. In a train i assisted last night they only have to have 2 brakes on. The orientation was AB, BA, BA, AB so i waited at the 3rd "B" end for the conductor.

Doesn't matter. Real railroads don't have them all pointing any particular direction, so it doesn't matter on a model railroad, and in fact, it'd look more prototypical for them to be random in the train. Most north american railroads have a minimum 2 handbrake policy for leaving standing cuts of cars (may be more at particular locations). It's easier on the conductor or brakeman if two handbrakes stand end to end, because you can tie one brake, then turn around and step from one end platform to the other and get the other one... but you'd never see cars switched just to get them to line up like this...just too impractical. Usually the handbrakes would be tied on the first two cars left at the cut point (unless a rule specified the opposite end), but often a rail employee might skip that first car on the end if the

2nd and 3rd cars (or 3rd and 4th) happened to stand end to end, because why climb up on the cars twice when you can do it once. But to that effect, say you had a rule where you had to put 10 brakes on the south end of a particular track due to a grade, and you came to the 10th and 11th car, and found two brakes standing together, most concientious rail employees would go ahead and add the extra brake, because they're already up on the equipment and it doesn't hurt to have a little added insurance. They can't run you off for tying too many brakes, but they can run you off for not tying enough.

Someone else said they don't have turntables for cars, but that isn't true at all. Cars were often turned on turntables, on wyes, etc... But rarely had anything to do with the brake wheel, usually a car was turned because it had to be unloaded on a certain side.

It's very common practice for railroads to turn box cars especially because they have to be unloaded from one side in particular. Perhaps the lading was loaded in such a way that it blocks the door on the opposite side and can not be unloaded from that side. Most industries have their unloading dock on one side only, so the car has to be positioned so that the accessible door is lined up to be unloaded for their dock. I have heard of turning other types of cars, but rarely. One example might be a covered hopper that has outlets on the bottom that point a certain direction...but usually the industry can snake their hoses around to get to it without that.

Not sure what you mean here...but most cars have an end platform these days, and you climb the ladder and swing around to the end platform to tie the handbrakes.

They also have invented a thing called the "brake stick" which eliminates the need to climb up on cars...especially those with high hand brakes.

Nope, no such rules, railroad, AAR, union or otherwise.

Actually cars are often turned on turntables (if available) but more commonly on WYES, but not for brake wheel reasons, but rather for making the lading accessible for unloading, as often a car can only be unloaded from one side, and that side may not line up with the customers dock until the car is turned.

In message , snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net writes

Today's unit coal trains may have to have their couplings facing a certain way so that they can be unloaded by the car rotary discharge unit. This is because they have a fixed coupling at one end and a rotating one at the other. If the fixed couplings are together then one of them will break if they try to rotate it.

On a recent visit to Canada (August) I saw the crew 'turn' a car at Jasper using the Wye so that it faced the right way. I also sow why when I managed to get a visit to the site at Roberts Bank where I was shown the rotary discharge unit.

To show which way round the cars are there is a red panel painted at one end - at least on the CP and CN unit trains that I saw. However, some cars get so dirty that it's very difficult to see the painted panel at times!

Here in New Zealand all the brake levers/wheels are on the right side and north end. Of course we can do that because there are no reversing situations.

Greg.P.

What about a train running from Wellington to Palmerston North via the Wairarapa?

John

"Greg Procter" wrote

Can you explain this?

How is it possible that they built an entire country's railroad system without any wyes, turntables, or balloon tracks, and wye would they do it that way to begin with?

Pete

All Kiwi trains run the same direction ;).

Cheers, John

On 9/12/2007 4:57 AM John Fraser spake thus:

Due, no doubt, to the Coriolis Effect ...

"John Fraser" wrote

Since they've basically only got two directions from which to choose -north or south- you'd think the islands would eventually end up sinking at one end or the other due to the weight of all those trains accumulating over time...