Re: Union Pacific gets tough over logo

This is a trademark issue, not a copyright issue.

Actually, it's a combination of both... UP's new flag graphic IS copyrighted.

A simple rectangle flag design could not be copyrighted... but because it's a graphic image of a flag waving in the breeze on a staff, it can be.

Read the licensing agreement!

A copyrighted image CAN be part of a trademark...

No doubt about that.

Good. Now that you acknowledge that...

Copyright extends the protection over the image in ANY form, not just from competitors in the same line of business as a trademark does. THIS is where it becomes significant to model railroaders... because scale is of no importance when the image is copyrighted. So, as I stated... it's a mixed issue.

Union Pacific is licensing the use of its trademarks - which extends beyond just some copyrighted artwork. Read the licensing agreement.

Trademark law is even less on the side of UP than copyright law. The underlying principle of allowing trademark rights is to protect the consumer from confusion and false branding and to protect the owner of the trademark from the missuse or false use of the trademark.

While corporations have tried very hard to create the impression in recent years that they "own" all uses of a trademark or copyright that was never the intent of congress when these intellectual rights were first established. Of course anything can happen in an American courtroom, regardless of the actual intent of the law. But the first principal of any tort case is that the plantif must establish that some form of an injury has occured or there is no grievence to redress. What possible injury to UP is done by the production of models?

Paul McGraw

Doesn't that law apply only to stuff PACKAGED in Canada?

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

Might even be a gain if some of that model stock moved by rail !

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

Subject: Have a Union Pacific Christmas!

Hello All,

Pulled this off of the Espee Forever group and figured some of you might find it amusing.

If you know about the recent licensing fees UP has been putting on model RR manufacturers and increasaed prices for UP products (including SP, DRGW, SSW, MP, CNW, Katy) then this might make you chuckle.

~~~

Have a Union Pacific Christmas! Author: NSTopHat

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't take credit for this, but got it from a friend: NSTopHat

I understand that the UP plans to air a new Christmas theme TV commercial immediately following this news segment. Here is a brief synopsis of what to look for.

"A Union Pacific Christmas", a 60 second commercial

1. Scene opens with a brief shot of a nice two story home somewhere out on the snowy plains of Nebraska next to the busy UP mainline. In the background (audio) we hear the familiar sounds of an acoustic guitar playing the UP theme.

1. Camera moves inside and shows Little Johnny running downstairs to see what Santa has left him for Christmas.

2. Little Johnny is ecstatic to see that Santa has left him with a brand new UP model train set. As the camera begins to zoom in on the train we see that it consists of a UP GE complete with flag, pulling a Rio Grande coal car, a MKT wheat hopper, a T&P cattle car, a MP wood chip car, a WP boxcar, a C&NW coil steel car, a Cotton Belt gondola and a SP tank car. Bringing up the rear is a bright shiny UP caboose.

1. As Little Johnny begins to play with his new trainset the music gets slightly louder followed by a knock on the door. As Little Johnny opens the door we see that its Sam Elliot dressed in full cowboy attire, six guns, spurs and Stetson.

2. As Little Johnny goes back to playing with his train we hear the familiar sounds of Mr. Elliot's voice.

"For over a hundred years the Union Pacific has helped to bring Christmas to the American family...... Just look at that 15 foot spruce Christmas tree over there. The UP brought it down from the mountains of Idaho."

"And the electricity to power all those Christmas lights? That's due to billions of tons of coal that the UP brings down each day from Wyoming."

"Mom's turkey dinner came to this family over UP rails from Arkansas and even the plastics used to make Little Johnny's model train......

1. Sam's dialog is abruptly interrupted by a ring on his cell phone. The music stops, then dead silence....

(Sam says to an unidentified person on the phone) "Omaha?.......Yes sir, I understand the situation...... Yes, I know we're the UP....... We'll handle it."

(Sam hangs up the phone and looks down at Little Johnny. Guitar music begins once again.)

(Sam) "Johnny, I've got some bad news son. It seems that Santa forgot to pay the UP 4% of his annual earnings for the use of all those trademarks on your model train. Have you got 4% to pay me?"

(Little Johnny looks up at the towering Sam Elliot and innocently asks) "What's 4%?"

"Too late!" (Sam says as he quickly whips out a UP special agents badge and pins it to his vest. As Little Johnny looks on in total shock and disbelief the camera pans down to Sam's cowboy boot which violently begins stomping Little Johnny's trainset into the ground.)

(As the guitar continues to play the soft strands of the UP theme, the camera zooms in on a what was once Little Johnny's train, now reduced to a pile of broken springs, gears, broken rail and plastic.)

(Sam once again begins to speak)

"For over a hundred years now the Union Pacific has helped bring the joys of Christmas to the American family. Yes, we have too many derailments and we might loose track of a secret military shipment every now and then. But while we don't have a clue about how to run a railroad we still pride ourselves on having the best corporate trademark lawyers in the nation."

1. (Scene changes to a shot of a UP freight with the American Rockies in the background. A UP logo appears with the words that read...

"Union Pacific, proud to be a corporate sponsor of model railroading."

Hello All, Pulled this off of the Espee Forever group and figured some of you might find it amusing.<

We have an editor who would like to copy this to print. Anyone know the author? Be nice to give them credit assuming they have not copyrighted it of course!

These days many manufacturers will pay the movie or TV producers to have their products shown. I think the term is "product placement". However, some manufacturers are also *denying* producers the ability to show their products on screen. The most famous story I recall was when Stephen Spielberg wanted to use M&Ms to lure ET into the house in the movie of the same name. M&M/Mars said, "No!" They thought children would be scared of ET as some sort of monster, so Spielberg went with Reese's Pieces instead. (This story may or may not be true. I haven't heard it verified from a film industry source.) Anyway, it shows that control of trademarks and how they are used is not recent thing started by UP.

heard it verified from a film industry source.)< I story I heard is that M&Ms were first offered the contract (they had to pay the studio for advertising) and they turned it down. Reese's Pieces gladly paided and the rest is history.

That is the story I heard as well.

Merry Christmas in Lawsuit Land Paul McGraw

Versions of Union Pacific shield were around before 1923, and hence would now be in the public domain since the 75-year copyright protection has expired. Union Pacific couldn't control their current use under copyright law.

Trademarks represent a business, and similar to a business they can exist much longer than any protection that copyright law can offer. This is a trademark issue.

And here's UPs idea of a model train that deserves their licence!

Keith Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

You may be missing his point, and since it seems you're at least a dozen IQ points above our unelected loss-leader, it must be on purpose.

I don't think anyone who opposes the UP stupidity (low inelligence combined withmeanness) would have any opposition to them charging for use of their logo - or a simplified monochrome rendition of it - on a piece of schlock like that. Now, I'd expect a good and sensible corporation, worthy of admiration, to deny their logo be used on such patenly cheap junk, but I don't care that UP does decide to offer their imprimatur to the manufacturer in return for their $0.23 worth. I still insist that modeling a real object is a much different thing, where the markings are applied in an effort to produce an accurate model, as opposed to some foam squeeze toy where the logo contributes a substantial portion of hte perceived value.

For me, I perceive no value in UP shields, and less than value in their supposedly patriotic efforts to wrap themselves in the flag that real people have been killed under.