On the front cover of the 10/04 issue of MR is a picture of Rio Grande diesel hydraulic locomotives. The article refers to them as Krauss-Maffei diesel hydraulic locomotives. I have never seen anything like them available here in the USA. Can anyone tell me more about them - were they simply manufactured by model manufacturers named Krauss-Maffei, are is this the protoype manufacturer? Granted, these are N scale, but it'd be nice to find out if these can be expected in HO scale...
Krauss-Maffei was the name of the German prototype manufacture. I am sure there was a fellow at our club here in New Zealand that had an HO one in brass. Just out of interest, the Western Pacific trial them too but didn not find them successful. Anyway try the brass manufactures for them.
I think Rivarossi did one in plastic some years back. SP tried them as well and they overheated in the many long tunnels that SP had, as did they in the Rio Grande's tunnels as well. ALCO copied the concept with a DH-643 they were 4300HP with hydralic transmission, SP had 3 of them and HATED them. I road with a crew once that had one MU'ed with an F-7, the engineer had NOTHING kind to say about that DH-643. They looked pretty neat (for a diesel that is).
Yes, of course, in the 1960´s Krauss Maffei from germany delivered a few of these engines called ML4000 to Southern Pacific and Rio Grande. These engines used hydraulic transmission instead of electric which is common in the USA today. The engines were not as succesful as the railways thought and so most were scrapped, SP rebuilt one (or more?) to a camera car which is preserved today, but needs to be overhauled.
An HO scale model of this engine, both in SP and DRGW paint was available from Rivarossi, you can find these rare models at ebay from time to time, search for Krauss or Maffei...
Micha
"Nigel Nichols" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:d07fqq$e7v$ snipped-for-privacy@lust.ihug.co.nz...
The Krauts were an interesting experiment in locomotive technology. They pulled very well due to the mechanical connection of all of the wheels together but the mechanical construction of the locos was more suited to the European way of running a railroad where the locos got a lot of service between pulls. The German techs were appalled at the way that the SP and the D&RG ran the locos, taiking them in for service only once a month. The locos quickly got a bad rep for failures on the road and only lasted a few years before being scrapped. The techs were also amazed that the railroads also MU'ed them and pulled trains that weren't even imagined in Europe (the locos got tested individually with specially prepared trains as the European coupling system could barely handle the power of those locos!). Alco built a number of locos for the SP that used the basic design of the hydraulic transmission system but those also had a number of problems and also were quickly retired. Rivarossi built a model of the loco and there have been two brass versions built, one stock and the other of the camera loco that SP built.
-- Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?
K-M was the German builder. There were two versions. The first was more-or-less a 'covered wagon' like a "F" or "E" unit, but with the cab raised in a hump. The second version were more like road switchers. Both were failures in practice
Both D&RG and SP experimented with them. Also also built an American made Diesel-hydraulic for SP. It was a failure. SP had one more fling with a second generation K-M version, but it too was a failure.
Their performance, on paper, or on a test track, or even in Europe, was excellent. They had higher total horsepower, a better power to weight ratio, and a better factor of adhesion than contemporary Diesel-electrics. But, like much foreign built machinery, they were delicate and required continual, competent, high maintenance. USA roads did NOT provide this, and the units soon started to give trouble. They were soon retired.
AHM imported a plastic HO model of the first generation of these. They're still not too hard to find at flea markets.
It was the Rio Grande that also had some of the first turret cab units.
Of the first run in 1961, SP got 3, (road numbers 9000-9002) and Rio Grande got 3 (No. 4001-4003). The Rio Grande later sold their three to the SP. SP then got a second batch of 15 with more of a "road switcher" type body in
1963 (No. 9003-9017).
SP also had Alco build 3 units using the same Voith hydraulic transmission, Model DH 643, in 1964 (No. 9018-9020).
All the units were something of a maintainenace nightmare, only one survived an appreciable length of time, being converted by the SP to a "camera car".
Re: HO Models,
Of the first style, AHM imported a plastic model by either Rivarossi or Mehano, I'm not sure which, throuigh the 1960's and 70's, I believe Alco Models did the second style in brass around the same time. I'm not sure if anyone did the DH-643, but if it was, it would most likely have also been Alco Models.
I worked for the Rio Grande during the period they were trying out these units. Every time I saw them they had a dynamometer car between the loco and the train.
One thing the crews didn't like was the slanted side windows that let the rain and snow pour in when they were opened. Also, these units seemed to be difficult to control at very low speed. When they coupled into a train it was stop-go-stop-go. They didn't seem to have the ability to gently glide to a coupling like a diesel-electric. I bet they would be a nightmare to switch with.
One time I climbed up on one and looked into the engine compartment and the floor and engine parts were covered with hydraulic oil. Yes, I imagine maintenance was a problem.
One must also remember that these were "Americanized" versions of German locos. And trains in Europe are different from those in North America in at least two vast ways:
They are shorter (read way less tonnage).
There is no slack between cars; the buffers and older screw type couplers in use when these were developed kept the train almost as one long car.
I rode with a crew in Milpitas Calif, where that FORD plant was. Crew was getting cuts of cars from the plant, had an F-7 with a DH-643 trailing. Every time the engineer would go from forward to reverse the alarm bell would ring because the DH-643 would not shift to reverse. HE WAS PISSED!!!!!!! He did not say nice things about the ALCO. The DH-643 still looked kinda neat........for a diesel that is.
"Norvin" wrote in message news:1NPWd.1134$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
I once got into a 'shark' when they were on the MN. The cab was a mess, but a peek into the engine compartment showed perhaps an inch of oil just sloshing around on the deck. I'd read of the continual and nearly unstoppable oil leaks that plagued many of Baldwin's Diesel efforts, but seeing is believing! Not only were they high maintenance, but workin on one must have been a hellish mess. Then there was the fire hazard, and immagine the EPA problems had those rules been in effect 'back then'.
Yeah but the Baldwins had that neat "rattle-de-clunk" sound, like a 2-10-2 crossed with a John Deere tractor. SP sure seemed to like Baldwin switchers, I saw them in Oregon till the late 70's.
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