Signalling Query

After many years of building British narrow gauge models I've decided to have a go at an On30 US layout. It will be a freelance model. I've managed
to find out about locomotives, rolling stock and buildings. I can find quite a lot of detail about signalling on US mainlines but what level of signalling would be appropriate for a single track narrow gauge line? Would it be similar to a "one engine in steam" rule or use of tokens to enter a block. I hav'n't seen any signals in the photographs I've seen, and nor have I noticed any in magazine articles about narrow gauge models. I'm particularly interested in the period covering the first half of the 20th century. If anyone knows of any good resources (or even knows the answer themselves!) I'd appreciate it if you could help, Thanks Tony
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Tony wrote:

Lot of low traffic branch lines had signals at the stations. The stations were in telegraphic contact with each other. The station master would set the signal to "Stop" as the train passed, and leave it set until the next station master telegraphed that the train had made it past him and the line was clear as far as his station. I'd go with semaphore signals, the position light and searchlight signals have a flavor of high traffic eastern roads like PRR. A lot of stations (depots) would have a semaphone signal mast built into the roof.
David Starr
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David Starr wrote:

Er, no, that's not how it was done. The stations had "train order signals." The normal position of these signals was clear. The signal would be set to stop if the agent (not "station master") had orders for the conductor of the train (the conductor is the person in charge of the train.) The engineer (engine driver) would also get a copy. If the signal was clear, then no train orders would be delivered to the train. The train would of course stop if it had business at the station, regardless of train order signal indication.
Actually, industrial and logging lines usually had no signals at all, standard or narrow gauge. AFAIK no narrow gauge line had position light signals.
Try a search on "Maine two foot railroads."
HTH
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
> David Starr wrote: > >> Lot of low traffic branch lines had signals at the stations. The >> stations were in telegraphic contact with each other. The station >> master would set the signal to "Stop" as the train passed, and >> leave it set until the next station master telegraphed that the >> train had made it past him and the line was clear as far as his >> station...
> Er, no, that's not how it was done.
Never heard of manual block, Wolf? Because in essence that's what he's described.
> Actually, industrial and logging lines usually had no signals at all, > standard or narrow gauge. AFAIK no narrow gauge line had position > light signals.
You'd be wrong, then, unless you're referring *only* to North America...
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But considering the question was about " US" railroads................well, I havent heard about "US" railroads anywhere but North America. Of course I will stand corrected of you show me an example of US railroads NOT in north America and no, sugar cane railroads in Hawaii don't count......:-)
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the OTHER Mike wrote:
> >> Wolf Kirchmeir wrote: >> >>> David Starr wrote: >>> >>>> Lot of low traffic branch lines had signals at the stations. >>>> The stations were in telegraphic contact with each other. The >>>> station master would set the signal to "Stop" as the train >>>> passed, and leave it set until the next station master >>>> telegraphed that the train had made it past him and the line >>>> was clear as far as his station... >> >>> Er, no, that's not how it was done. >> >> Never heard of manual block, Wolf? Because in essence that's what >> he's described. >> >>> Actually, industrial and logging lines usually had no signals at >>> all, standard or narrow gauge. AFAIK no narrow gauge line had >>> position light signals. >> >> You'd be wrong, then, unless you're referring *only* to North >> America... > > But considering the question was about " US" > railroads................
Yes, the original question was - Wolf's statement doesn't have any such qualifier, does it?
> well, I havent heard about "US" railroads anywhere but North America. > Of course I will stand corrected of you show me an example of US > railroads NOT in north America...
Defined how? US owned? US operated? US locos, stock and infrastructure?
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Mark Newton wrote:

Mark, I'm getting testy - why should i qualify a comment as being about N.America when the thread is about N. America????
Quit picking your nits. Or else get a good wash in sheep dip to get rid of them.
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

You're only getting testy because you posted something that was wrong and then got called on it.

No sheep around here. Thinking of New Zealand again?
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

<deafening silence from Wolf...>
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Mark Newton wrote:

Oh, I've heard of manual block. Not relevant here. AFAIK, it's a UK term. In N. America, trains run by timetable and train orders.
And you're picking nits again. You really do have an obsession with Being Right, don't you.
Bye bye.
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

PS: The time a train passed through a control point was telegraphed to the next one, and _to the dispatcher_. The term was "train O/S", which IIRC meant "train on sheet" (the telegrapher's record of the times the trains came through.) But manual block as described above was not a N. American practice. It gives the agents control over train movements. But train orders from the dispatcher governed train movements, even when there was a timetable.
HTH
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As the poster of the original query it helps me! I was going to post a supplementary question but you have actually answered my query without the question. Thanks again. Tony
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Wrong again - refer to numerous Eastern railroad rulebooks for more detailed descriptions of manual block...
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:

Oh, but it *is* relevant here, since it was one of the systems used to control trains on narrow gauge lines in North America.

Then you don't know as much as think you do - it's a term, and a system, used in North America. The term is not used as such in the UK.

Indeed, that's *ONE* of the systems used. But not the only one. You're just displaying your ignorance now, Wolf.

Yes, when I *am* right, and people who think they know more than they do post stuff that is wrong...
Try a simple google search on the term "manual block", Wolf, and see how many references you can find to it being used on North American railroads. Or refer to the classic publication, "The Rights Of Trains"...
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Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
>You really do have an obsession with Being Right, don't you.
With hindsight, my initial flippant response to this comment failed to address an important point.
Wolf, why do you think it's acceptable to post information here that is wrong? If this newsgroup is intended to help modellers by exchanging information, why shouldn't erroneous or incorrrect post be challenged, and corrected?
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Mark Newton wrote:

I usually put in a "generally" or an "AFAIK". I thought I did so in my posts. NB that "generally" does _not_ "universally". I'll grant my ignorance, though - there are a lot of exceptions. I personally interpret statements as "general" unless otherwise qualified, ie, "exceptions expected."
The post I was commenting on was about the use of the train order signal, which the poster assumed was a block signal. (He actually described a train order signal attached to the station.) Even if the train order signal showed "pick up orders", the train didn't necessarily stop. The train order signal was set to "clear" by default, and remained so even if a train made a scheduled stop. It was not a block signal, so to speak of "manual block" in relation to it is IMO confusing. That confusion was what I was addressing. I apologise for any confusion I added by my ignorance of manual block signalling in N. America.
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Didn't you guys sit in the balcony during the Muppet show ?
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HEHEHE...
http://members.aol.com/mv3d/snds/pitts.wav
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Infrastructure - right of way, operating trackage. maybe I assumed too much ? Of course, I'm an ass even when I don't assume !
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Genessee and Wyoming is a US railroad operating in Canada, Australia, Mexico and Bolivia.
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