Toys or Models?

=>Now I am no expert in the origins of this hobby, but my impression is =>that it started in old tin plate and/or wooden toys. Manufactures then =>added motors etc. and eventually over time we had the likes of early 3 =>rail. Now if I am dead wrong tell me how.

You're partly right. Model railroading as a hobby did develop from the toy trains made in the 1800s and early 1900s. But its roots go deeper.

The first scale models were made in the early 1800s, at first as demonstration or show pieces for potential investors, and occasionally as brag pieces for directors of the RR companies, etc. But by about 1850, live steam scale models were built for those who could afford them. These often came without track - they just ran around on the floor! By the latter 1800s, such live steam locos ran on tinplate or solid metal tracks. Many had a propensity to leak, and were called "dribblers."

The first toys were wood or cast iron "floor models", dragged and pushed around by children. The first powered toy trains used clockwork, and these were made in Germany well before 1900. The gauges as we know them derive from these manufacturers. They named the smallest gauge #1, the next one #2, and so on. O (or "zero") gauge was invented for those with not enough space to run proper sized trains. English manufacturers followed soon after - for example, Basset Lowke dates from around 1900 IIRC.

Henry Greenly was one of the pioneers in scale model railroading and promoted the hobby for adults. His book, Model Railways, dates from 1924, and it's clear from what he says about availability of supplies that the trade catering to model railroaders dates from about 1900. His promotion of railway modelling in this and other how-to books had a strong positive effect, since it made playing with trains a legitimate adult pastime. He also helped popularise the then smallest gauge, OO/HO. But his attitude to modelling had a several bad effects, chief of which is the scale gauge mish-mash in the UK (4mm scale trains running on 16.5mm track, etc). He actually specified trackgauges in fractional inches, and the scale ratio in mm to the inch - a weird combination that seems to have been devised for no other reason than to enable hobbyists to use ordinary rulers for measurements. In the US, Edwin P. Alexander published Model Railroads in 1940. AFAIK, this was the first serious treatment of model railroading in North America. Note that Model Railroader was published beginning in 1934, so that Alexander published for an already well-established market.

In both Europe and the N. America, museums and exhibitions introduced large numbers of the public to scale model railroading. The model railroad at the

1936 World's Fair was justly famous, and no doubt inspired many people. This continued well into the 50s and 60s - I recall drooling over the local model raiload club's layout in Graz, Austria, set up for the annual Trade Show and Fair when I was a schoolboy.

What's interesting is that from the beginning HO (OO in the UK) manufacturers offered properly scaled items, unlike O gauge, which was offered in a variety of sizes all running on 1.25" / 32mm gauge track. In fact, between the two world wars of the last century, marques like Marklin and Hornby were proud of their fidelity to scale in their 16.5mm gauge offerings, and both earned reputations for quality that lasted long after they were surpassed by other manufacturers (but both are now catching up.) Both also offered cheap O gauge trains that resembled real trains just enough to help children's imagine they were watching the Fast Express from line side.

HTH&GL

Wolf Kirchmeir ................................. If you didn't want to go to Chicago, why did you get on this train? (Garrison Keillor)

It goes back earlier than that. In Victorian times they had "dribblers" - spirit fired steam engines that ran on the floor, not on track. Called that because they dribbled water and spirit behind them.

Bassett-Lowke made models in all scales and gauges between 15" (yes, 1 foot 3 inches) live steam (their famous Little Giant Atlantics and evan a pacific) and O-gauge.

In the smaller scales, Bassett Lowke, Bing and others all made models for each other. Bassett Lowke primarily made locomotives and sold carriages built by Bing and Carrette as well as their own.

Their stuff in the smaller scales varied from highly accurate to generic tinplate. As did Hornby's - compare a Hornby O-gauge Princess Elizabeth with their tinplate stuff.

The accurate British stuff was made by themselves and some of the more generic stuff imported.

Bassett Lowke also sold some custom special high end stuff that was built to order, subcontracted out to master crafysmen like Stanley Beeson

In the early days they were considered toys. But I don't think they ever got beyond the generic tinplate stage.

It was when they started to look like the real thing.

I had low-end Hornby windup O-gauge as a boy. The engines were all

0-4-0 dressed up to look like bigger ones, even the streamlined "pacific". They had also done 3-rail AC with things like a generic 4-4-2 tank engine painted for a lot of lines. Very generic, very tinplate and very 2-dimensional. I lusted after a pre-war Princess pacific which looked like the real thing but even then (and second hand) they were beyond what most people could afford.

Any more? Was he ever? Okay, that's a bit hyperbolic - but he's long since passed into some Lovecraftian realm of pale and evil creatures.

During the Florida Voter Purge "crisis", I wondered if Katherine Harris ("Morticia") was Michael Jackson in ddrag - or is it the other way around?

I thought most of you guys used paper towels or old t-shirts.

"Jerry" <

I know Jerry, we'll be dead.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

You need to go to church. Jerry

Good gods, Jerry, if you're a Christian I want nothing to do with christinanity.

I am just giving back what I get. They started it. Besides they got against me from word go because I support the UP. Tough. They will be paying my salary if they buy UP roadname and that is fine with me Jerry

If you burn in Hell it your decision, not my problem and not something I want to debate with you. You can decide on your own. Jerry

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 19:49:53 GMT, Steve Caple wrote

Well, if you were to let all the hot air out of Molly Ivin's head, se'd look just like Jacko...

And if you let all the sh-t out of Shrubs's Cheney would be President - and that'd probably be marginally worse.

Apparently your right. Bring up something trivial or off topic and people will blather about it forever. Try to get an insightful interesting conversation that could actually add to the hobby going and people ignore it. I've noticed that on several threads.