Train Shows and Clubs

We deal with these issues by requiring younger members to have a sponser. The sponser takes responsibility for the younger member. There is a

The sponser is ultimately responsible for the junior member. The junior member can not be present without the sponser (if participating as a member). It seems to work fairly well. We get a few kids who are ready and a few who aren't.

Paul

Please be serious Fisty. NO club would have a 22 month old child as a member. Any club I have belonged to would not let a young one stay unless the parent was watching him all the time. A 15 or 16 YEAR old, fine. But seriously, a 22 month old... you could not want to come to a club with your son now. you would not have any enjoyment yourself as you would have to be constantly watching Fisty Jr.

Keep the kid at home until he is old enough to understand the value of things.

When my grandson was born he automatically became a member of our club. His dad is and so am I. He is 5 yrs old and is never left to run alone at the club. One of us is with him at all times. If we weren't around one of the other members would look after him since he listens and has become a member of the group, remember he is only 5. He gets rambunctious at times. But only has to be reminded where he is. Without the young member this hobby could die. I had to fight to get a previous club to admit teenagers. They needed a sponsor but we never had problems till the president bent the rules and admitted kids without the sponsors. At my present club that would not be allowed. Anytime you yell at a 22 month old child you let yourself and your group open for a lot of criticism. The hobby doesn't need that.

My gosh, if you think the scale train set is bad, you should see what the old men in the toy train groups would have said about all this Marty Hall

you got it, parents should pay more attention. If the caboose had been broken, ole dad would have been responsible. Marty Hall

NO you PIN HEAD i will not leave my kid at home he likes TRAINS so i take him to shows and to clubs. and it is PINHEADS like you that make this a dieing hobby. you are killing Model Railroading as fast as you can. as for being a member i never said he wanted to be one and with BUTTHEADS like you in clubs i don't either and people like you are why the 2 local clubs have

Paul

That attitude goes both ways.

It is because of a visitor's attitude that he becomes unwelcome and unwanted, regardless of the club's collective attitude. This is important when a small child accompanying that visitor is allowed to touch, grab and/or handle scale models, and the parents do nothing to correct such behavior. "Oh, no, not my little darling" is the prevailing attitude exhibited by the parent.

Paul, understand this is not directed at you specifically, chiefly because (1) I've never met you or your son in person, and (2) I do not know what your parenting skills are like. Therefore, I can make no judgments thereto. However, I'm commenting on the larger issues of PARENTAL and PERSONAL responsibility.

The first type is obvious: taking care of a child, including teaching them not to touch things for which they have not obtained permission. The second is obvious but, sadly, is not accorded the respect and standard it deserves.

The result of the laissez-faire attitude toward responsibility has given rise to people's changes in behavior. For some bizarre reason, people now have this sense of "entitlement," and that they're somehow "special," so they can do things regardless of who may be harmed. Sadly, this attitude has spilled over into their children.

One example that comes to mind was during my club's open house some years ago. After one particular show one weekend, after the guests had departed, a fellow member told me about one visitor (I think it was a woman, though I'm not sure) pick up an HO scale brass model and look at its underside, despite having been advised beforehand not to do so. He admonished this visitor not to do that, as the models ranged in value from a few dollars to several hundred, and that could cause her certain economic distress. He then took it from her and placed it back on the layout. The "I'm so special" attitude has got to stop.

Then there was the one show where a young couple changed their baby's diaper right in the layout room (the basement of a house) during one show with other visitors present. We learned of this post-show when one member discovered the dirty diaper in one of the trash cans located about the layout room. Do I really need to go into detail about this lack of good judgment, discretion and tact?

To the best of my knowledge, however, I can't recall a single incident in which a child did something he was not supposed to do, such as touch the trains or scenery and create a mess. I think we've been fortunate in that regard.

Paul, I think it's wonderful that you seek to indulge your son's interest in trains whenever practical. However, just because you and he have a mutual love of trains does not permit you to abdicate your parental responsibilities and duties when doing so. As long as you live up to those, you should be able to avoid the "bad blood" on all sides -- for everyone's benefit.

Dieter Zakas

I'd hazard a guess that his parenting skills are deficient, based on the content and tone of his posts so far.

If anything were capable of "killing" the hobby, it would be folks such as yourself - il-mannered bastards with a massive chip on their shoulders. I wouldn't want you as a member of any organisation that I belonged to.

Simply because we refuse to turn our clubs in to nurseries?

You are saying that if you brought your son to our club house and he picked up an expensive locomotive and threw it on the floor, you would be responsible and cover the cost of repair/replacement? At our club, only 1/2 the rolling stock and motive power belongs to the club as an entity. The remainder is the property of the members. I know some of them have expensive locomotives that they have spent additional time and money on. What is the value of a Minitrix Big Boy that has been re-painted/lettered for a custom road name and super detailed? The locomotive has a list of $800.00, I think the fellow spent $100.00 for additional parts, plus the time it took him to repint and reletter it. Are you telling me that if Jr came to our club, grabbed said locomotive when you were not looking and dropped it, that you would make good and pay the member the $900.00+ to replace it? And believe me, a drop from table height to a concrete floor will break the piece. And please do not say that the member who owned the locomotive should watch it. If the member is at the control panel at one end of a 30' layout and his locomotive is running the layout, he could not get there in time.

It is a simple question of responsibility. Children that young do not have it.

Paul, this entire thread has turned into such a piss-n-moan contest, it no longer is amusing.

The N-Trak club I belong to is very tolerant of kids (we even let them run our trains with radio throttles during shows). We at some point had young kids

We even do a show in Children's Hospital. We had to lower our module's legs to allow kids in wheelchairs to be able to see the trains. It is so nice to see all the kids smile and enjoy the layout.

I even run N scale Thomas set and I have a blast when young kids follow it round-n-round the layout.

But a 22 month old child is little young for scale model trains. Toy trains like Brio and Thomas the Tank Engine - yes. Scale trains - no.

So, don't just say that all the clubs are against kids - that is not true. And stop all the pissing-n-moaning - it is not very constructive.

Peteski

Actually Paul, on further thought, if you were to come to our club and display the anti-social and immature attitude that is coming through in your posts, you yorself would not be welcome as a member. You really should stop and think before you open your mouth, or in this case your keyboard. There was nothing in anyone's replies that warranted an infantile response such as the tirade above. Our club is open to all "mature" members of the community regardless of race, religion, etc. However, we have the right to refuse admittance to obnoxious or anti-social people. I believe that our club as a whole would view your attitude as "not being good for the club specifically and the hobby in general". If the above is an example of your intellectual maturity, you would be asked to leave.

They sure don't have a bunch of 22 month old varmits busting up the trains fella. A club isn't a place for a goo goo baby. Marty Hall

Spanking the parent? Could be fun. But why not take a proactive apporoach to the whole thing. Our club HAD those kinds of problmes before, but now uses a double tiered stanchion and rope system about 4 feet from our display layout. Not only gives us a buffer zone, but also a lane for our operators to walk around with their throttles. Problem solved! Chooch

Must be nice to have such a large room. Our club room is 28'x40' and has both an N Scale modular layout (the one we take to shows), it is 8'x16' and our 12'x24' HO modular layout. The stairs come up in the center of one end, as well, in one corner, we have a lounge with Sink, refrigerator, counter and two chairs as well as a washroom. The ailses are just over 3' each. We have to watch like a hawk. At last year's open house we collected just over $100.00 in donations, but lost 2 pieces of rolling stock during the event. You can't watch everyone all the time. Luckily the two pieces were cheap.

"Hzakas" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m23.aol.com...

On that note, allow me to relate a story that happened about a month ago at my HO club's Open House. We have a lift out section of railroad that is an industrial-type park. It's about 3' x 4', and has, as expected, a lot of track on it. We had removed it from the layout in order to work on it, and had it set up on some temporary benchwork. One of our members was doing work on it during the show as a demonstration: handlaying track, wiring, scenery, etc. After he had finished, he cleaned up and left two boxcars on the track in the middle of it, well away from the edges. I was walking by, later, and there was a kid about 5 years old, with his father looking on and smiling, *laying* on the layout section, . What I mean by *laying* is that the kid had his entire upper body stretched out on the plywood, his hips at the edge of it, with his feet dangling about 2 feet off the ground. Now, unless this kid is a world class high jumper, the father had actually picked him up and put him on the layout. What was this kid doing? He was playing choo-choo with the boxcars like it was some big wooden toy train. I stopped but I didn't say anything right away. I simply walked over and leaned on the layout section with my elbows and watched the kid very closely, being very obvious that I was doing so (with my club name badge pinned to my shirt & while wearing my hat with the club logo on it). I didn't frown or roll my eyes, I just watched the kid with a neutral expression. When the kid derailed a car within 15 seconds, all I said was "Careful." The father re-railed the car, got the hint (I guess), and picked the kid up and said, "C'mon _____, let's go see the rest of the layout." And off they went. Who knows how long the kid had been at it? What sticks in my craw is that one of the boxcars was a $30 Kadee. Now, sure, the guy doing the demo shouldn't have left such an expensive car on this section, but jeez... To be fair, the kid was not mauling the equipment, nor did he cause any damage. But honestly folks, what was the father thinking?

Paul A. Cutler III

Whow: here are two examples of the personality trait that undermines our hobby:

Marty Hall wrote: >

No. I'd leave the child abuse to the likes of you. The parent is the one I'd kick in the testicles.

So you are saying that 22 month old children are welcome at your club? The simple fact is that the majority of parents do not disipline their children and will let the child do whatever it wants because as one parent said about a child pushing cars back and forth on another club's layout at a recent show... "Isn't that cute, Johnny just loves to play with toy trains". The mother was actually holding little Johnny up so he could play with the "toys" on the club's layout.