Unloading Lakers

NO, not the LA Lakers!!
I am talking about the Great Lake Freighters.
I have an "Edmond Fitzgerald" style freighter. I know how they are loaded at
the ore docks.
I don't have the room for that, so I need to know how they are unloaded.
I am interested in the late 50's and early 60's time period.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Frank R.
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:58:07 -0400, "Frank Rosenbaum"

See http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/glihc/nj/dock4idx.html and http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/glihc/articles/sia.html . Search Google for Hulett unloaders.
I think there was an article in one of the MRR mags within the last two or three years on these machines -- maybe even someone who had modelled them. As a project these machines would be a huge modelling accomplishment.
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two or three years on these machines <
MM May, June, and July of --'84 RMJ July '98 and January --'97
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:58:07 -0400, "Frank Rosenbaum"

Here is the best page http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/glihc/hulett /
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Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

Today all the Great Lakes bulk freighters are built as self unloading ships. They have a conveyor system in th ebottom of the holds, bucket elevators, and a long conveyor boom to delive the material to the dock or hopper bin.
Some older G.L. freighters were converted to self unloaders in later years. There are still a few of these in service, but they're getting rare.
Conventional ships, without self unloading capability, were unloaded in several ways.
In the very early days it was by shovel and bucket.
Then came various designs of 'whirly" (rotating) cranes with clamshells or other buckets.
Theese were followed by 'bridge cranes' ... huge lattice-girder structures that looked for all the world like a truss bridge. They could move sideways along the arf on tracks. Inside, or under the 'bridge' rode a small 'car' with the operator's comparment and a winch head. Suspended from this was a clamshell that could be lowered into the boat's open hatches. Such cranes were especially popular for coal and stone unloading, but were also used for iron ore and other bulk commodities. A very few are still in service. Walthers is supposed to be making an HO model of one of these.
For ore service, the 'bridges' were largely replaced with Hulett unloader machines. These proved more efficient than the bridge cranes. Others have listed various webpages dealng with these huge machines. Sylvan models is supposedly working on an HO model of one of these. The early versions were steam powered, all the later ones were electric.
Various other means were used for grain, cement, and other commodities. Bucket conveyors and compressed air-assisted piping being some of these.
Some ships were speciallized for certain cargos, others not. Many of the bulk carriers transport(ed) more than one commodity. Often they'd carry ore down the lakes, and coal back up. With seasonal cargos like grain, the shippers would often hire as many ships as they could get.
Dan Mitchell ===========
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Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

A couple additional thoughts to my earlier post.
Both "Bridge' cranes and Hulett unloaders were BIG machines and took up considerable space. Often the 'bridge' cranes worked in pairs, and Huletts in groups of three or four. A typical installation for either would be WIDER than an ore dock, though not so long. Ore docks typically could accept at least two freighters end to end, most unloading docks not.
Both 'bridges' and Huletts would span a number of loading tracks. The bridges would also extend to the back (away from the dock) past the tracks, to a 'dumping' area where the material could be dumped on the ground in huge stockpiles. Often these would reach almost to the height of the cranes 'bridge' structure. The stockpiles allowed the cranes to unload a ship even if no train cars were on hand. The material could then be picked up from the piles and loaded onto rail cars when available. Thus the cranes might be working even with no ship present.
Huletts likewise often had stock pits beneath their shorter span, for the same reason, but not so extensive as those for the 'bridge' cranes.
Since both 'bridges' and Huletts could move back and forth along the dock, any individual machine might share a stockpit or stockpile with several other machines.
Dan Mitchell ===========
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The bridge crane is available and I have one in my work bin. It is a substantial monster. It can be shortened to save space. mine is to work ore and scrap brought in by ship and barge near an electric furnace. It is set in the Jersey Meadows at in WWII. Plausible fiction.
Jim Stewart
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Thanks everyone for your help. I think that I need to re-think what my ship will carry. Grain sounds nice and I might develop a 'vacuum operated unloader to pipe the grain into the cars. It will not be an operating thing, but I will have operations around it.

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loaded
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Thanks, "me". That was a nice site.
I think that since I can justify a vacuum unloading process, the ship will be a grain ship one session and a cement ship on another.

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me wrote:

Yes, that too would be a good choice.
The dock facilities for cement are quite like grain elevators, with silos and lots of piping. The dry cement can be handled like a fluid, and is often blown from one location to another in an air stream. The boats are not radically different from other bulk carriers, but usually smaller (GOOD, on a model RR), and have smaller hatches. The little Sylvan lake freighter model (available in HO and N) would make a fine cement boat, and is only about a third the size of the Edmund Fitzgerald. The Sylvan model can be lengthened if a bigger boat is desired. Sometimes cement boats have only small round hatches, with deck piping, and look more like tankers. Such ships were usually painted a very light gray, almost white, since they got covered in cement dust anyway. With a few color accents on the stack or hull they were often among the better looking of the Great Lakes freighters.
Dan Mitchell ===========
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Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

That will certainly make for a lot less dock space needed ... perhaps only six inches or so deep, depending on how you model the grain storage silos. You'd just need a shallow dock, with tall grain elevator silos right close up to the warf. Usually there is a railroad track or two between the warf edge and the start of the silo 'wall'.
Newer silos are almost all cylindrical, and you'd need to model at least the front half of each silo. Most available model elevator silos are way too small for such a dock scene, so you'd need to use PVC pipe or large mailing tubes, etc., for the silos. The thing will be tall, but need not be very deep. Older grain elevators, on the other hand, were often rectangular, so the front wall is FLAT, meaning a lot less depth is needed to model the face of them.
This whole scene could put right along a wall, like a huge false-front background structure.
Good luck.
Dan Mitchell ===========
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That will work. The boat is about 6 feet long and on the wall side of the layout. I could put the elevators against the wall, but the dock will be 'inland' almost like a slip so I probably will have to build in 3d. The tracks will be on the aisle side between the boat and the rest of the warf. Then there will be other warf buildings then more tracks for them and for the car float. The whole area is about 30 inches wide by almost 12 feet long so there is plenty of space to work with.

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just for fun : http://jbrail.railfan.net/Industries/UGGTerminal.html http://jbrail.railfan.net/Industries/GrainTerminal.html Jb

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OHMYGOD!!!!!!! I am in deep doodoo now!!!! Those are massive!! They'll take up the entire railroad!
<<breath in>><<breath out>>
Thank goodness for selective compression.
Thanks for the url's. Those were great pictures.

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Frank Rosenbaum wrote:

The Thunder Bay installations are, IIRC, the largest in the world. There certainly are smaller ones in many locations. Appearance is similar, but with fewer silos. In general these are larger silos thanusually found on 'farm' elevators. Hence the Walthers' elevator is too small to give a correct impression of a wharf elevator, even with selective compression. Likely some of the roof parts (tubes, head house, conveyors, etc.) from the kit could be used, with larger (taller) silos. A very nice dockside elevator was built for the model RR club in the Kalmbach Pub. building at Milwaukee. Photos of it have turned up in several publications. It's 'selectively compressed', but looks very believable.
And, as I mentioned earlier, the older elevators were smaller, and often more rectangular. Some of these, at least, remained in operatin until quite recently. Often they had newer sections added, usually of the round silo type, so the two tyrpes can exist side-by-side in one complex.
For one set of examples, go to: <http://ah.bfn.org/a/ganson/250 . Several elevators connected with the Great Northern Ry. are described here, in both Buffalo, NY and Superior, WI. Lots of detail photos, and interior views too.
Dan Mitchell ===========
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Here's a smaller terminal. It's inland so it gets grain from farms to be loaded onto trains. http://jbrail.railfan.net/Industries/EdmGrainTerm.html still kind of cool though. Jb

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Thanks, JB. I have bookmarked this so I have a reference for building.

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Try these:-)
http://www.bnsf.com/markets/agricultural/elevator/elevmenu.html
Donald
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Thanks, Donald. Those pictures will help.

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