Beginner Q's, Petter S clone from Greece..

Hi,
Re-subscribing to this group after a long absence, and would appreciate
a bit of guidance..Hailing from Crete, Greece..
My friendly junk-man called me the other day, as he always does whenever
anything "too intersesting" to scrap pops up..
The engine is an 8hp, 750 rpm single cyl, water cooled diesel, looking
very much like the Petter S. Seems complete with a Calibrator thing for
what I assume is for cylinder and mains oiling. The thing is rusty, and
does not turn over by hand (~60 cm flywheel..)I'll trade him a 15horse,
3 phase motor for it.. I'll try and get some pic's up soon..
Name plate says "S. Papathanasiou, Xalkidos" in Greek..
Some q's
1. While casting tech is/was pretty common in Greece, I would be
surprised that above manufacturer would take place in Greece, maybe
Petter supplied parts/license overseas? The intricate aluminum part of
the Calibrator looks like quite a task from scratch?
Anyone have any histrory on Petters' policy or know what might have been
happening in Greece wrt oil engines
2. How shoule I go about getting this thing unstuck, mostly concerned
with not braking any rings, or spinning any bearings. I was thinking to
try and presurrise the cylinder and main oil feed and see what goes.
I would also try to remove the injector and fill cylinder with diesel
(brake fluid anyone)? Then rock back and forth like a baby.....
3. Really would like to avoid taking the head off before I can get this
thing running, but failing that, is there any DIY head gasket knowhow
out here?
4. On the side of the cylinder, fairly high up, there'r a threaded wing
nut, with a machined seat. Anyone know what this thing is for? (a match
to start?)
5. Would these things ever run on pre-heated veggie oil?
6. Is it necessay to have the thing bolted down only for a test run?
7. Finally, and esp. from the ladies on this n.g., any recommendations
of really good excuses/lies/justifications for the boss as to why I
brought home another machine (more or less have used up all of mine;-)
regards,
nicolas boretos
Reply to
Nicolas Boretos
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Nicholas RPM is wrong for an 8hp Petter S and I think it would be best to confirm the identity before answering the other questions. Can you put a pic up or send it to me and I will. regards
Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven
Thanx Roland and Celia,
I've put up 4 pics below, which might help indentity....
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Looking at oil2.jpg, I see the two big cooling tubes at the top, I wonder what the plug/thumbscrew is on the right side, as well as the two plungers, one on the injector, and the one thats a bit bent, with the "tongue" on the pump shuttle? I wonder how you would start this thing, seems theres a holder for the blow torch in the back next to the exhaust
Anyway, thanx..
nicolas boretos
Reply to
Nicolas Boretos
Nice engine! I can see where you get the Petter clone idea from, though I'm sure it isn't a Petter. The lubricator is particularly Petterish.
What does the brass plate in the picture "Oil3" say, Nicolas?
Regards, Arthur G
Reply to
Arthur G
sure it isn't a Petter. The lubricator is
Hi,
The plate says, in Greek, "Xalkidos Diesel Engine, S. Papathanasiou, 8hp, 750 rpm".
I'm particularly interested as to whether Petter licensed technology to Greece. If not, I feel kind of nice thinking that we might have had some semblance of a machine industry in Greece, even if they simply copied existing tech. The base casting and the oval exhaust are particularly nice. Anyway, still dont see how one would have started this thing. I dont see a hot bulb or hot tube anywhere (maybe it does not need it...), but then, why the (I assume) burner holder in the back?
regards, nicolas
Reply to
Nicolas Boretos
IMHO not a trace of Petter in its lineage. Although I suspect I know what it is I'll keep quiet until Tim's pronounced. regards Roland
I'm sure it isn't a Petter. The lubricator is
Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven
There's a lot of Bolinder about it, especially the head & the fuel pump/governor. It's a mirror image of the usual Bolinders layout (inlet & exhaust reversed), at least so far as the marine ones on the English canals go.
Lubricator & expansion chamber are not like anything I've seen on a Bolinder.
The lamp would heat the plug which can be seen projecting horizontally just above the cylinder head studs.
Cheers Tim
Reply to
Tim Leech
Thanx all for your help...
Ah, there's the bugger...
And the gizmo on top of the injector? I just checked on the Bolinder.info site and saw a sketch of what they refer to as a "governor pecker/spring"... I wonder again, what the "T" screw coming of the side of the head is for?
regards and thanx,
nicolas
Reply to
Nicolas Boretos
Bolinder was my guess so wrong as usual :-) The T on the side could be either a decompression tap or for some sort of starter paper. It'll have to come out to discover which. ttfn Roland
"> > There's a lot of Bolinder about it, especially the head & the fuel
Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven
My guess is that it's Bolinder-derived, though whether legally so or just cribbed I suppose we can only guess...
My vote is a decompression tap. Bolinders of my acquaintance had a knurled knob, I've seen T-handled taps on others.
Control for turning the spindle/needle/what have you, which adjusts the spray angle for idle running (wide spray into hot bulb) or working under load(narrow jet direct into cylinder).
Cheers Tim
Reply to
Tim Leech
Reading through this thread again, I noticed that none of us have actually answered your "how to" questions. Sorry about that.
1. While casting tech is/was pretty common in Greece, I would be surprised that above manufacturer would take place in Greece, maybe Petter supplied parts/license overseas? The intricate aluminium part of the Calibrator looks like quite a task from scratch? Anyone have any history on Petters' policy or know what might have been happening in Greece with oil engines
___ Can't answer that one, Nicolas. Possibly someone can, but it isn't unlikely that they bought in a calibrator straight from stock ex Petters.
2. How should I go about getting this thing unstuck, mostly concerned with not braking any rings, or spinning any bearings. I was thinking to try and pressurise the cylinder and main oil feed and see what goes. I would also try to remove the injector and fill cylinder with diesel (brake fluid anyone)? Then rock back and forth like a baby.....
___ That very much depends on just how stuck it is! If it was me, I'd have the head off by now and see what conditions are like inside. There may be years of flaked rust or just dry and dusty rust around the top of the liner. Whatever, trying to move the piston is something I'd certainly not attempt until I had looked inside both cylinder and crankcase. Head gaskets are not much of a problem. if it comes off without being too gnawed, it may be possible to reuse it - at the worst, there are a number of people now who will make you solid copper replacement gaskets.
Repeated cycles of a penetrating agent of your choice (I prefer Plus Gas, others a range of things from Diesel to Coca-Cola) and heating with a big gas torch will eventually crack the worst corrosion, especially if you are driving a big block of wood down on top of the piston whilst hot. Although I have never yet failed to get a piston out in this fashion, I've read a lot of exciting adventures from those who have. If the rusting is very bad and the piston is cast iron, a long, cold electrolytic bath will do the job. If the piston is aluminium, you can't use this methods as it will rot the piston away in hours!
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- will tell you all you need to know about this process.
5. Would these things ever run on pre-heated veggie oil?
___ I'd concentrate on getting it to run properly on real Diesel. Once you've cracked that, you can experiment with chip fat all you like!
6. Is it necessary to have the thing bolted down only for a test run?
____ OH YES!! A big Diesel single, made of cast iron and running at 750rpm will hop merrily about the place and the rotating flywheel mass will have it over if it misfires. You can absolutely guarantee it will try and get out of the door or somewhere else you would not want it to go - and what if it takes a liking to the oil in the sump if the rings are a bit dodgy? Don't mess with it, at least bolt it to some long bits of four by four.
7. Finally, and esp. from the ladies on this n.g., any recommendations of really good excuses/lies/justifications for the boss as to why I brought home another machine (more or less have used up all of mine;-)
___ No help there, we are all in the same boat! I try to get them into the workshop when she is out.
It's nice to have a new voice on the NG, Nicolas, keep us informed. The nitty-gritty detail will not bore us poor, sad anoraks ;o))
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
comments interposed below ttfn Roland
Not a Petter Calibrater nor anywhere close. Stylistically its much closer to a Madison-Kipp or Manzell. I'm not aware of Petter ever selling Calibraters.
A great deal depends on whether its stuck near TDC or BDC. If the latter a ported two-stroke leaves very little room to play with.Since electrolysis is line of sight my experience has been that whilst it will clean above and below the piston it will do nothing between them. From the pics it appears just possible that the crankcase may split somewhere around the main bearing. If so that will make life much easier.
snip
Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven
Hi again,
Thanx to all of your posts. I appreciate it. As Kim proposed, first thing I'll be doing is taking of the head and see where I'm at with this. I'll probably try the brake fluid thing if there'a alot of corrosion around the cyl/liner area. Otherwize, diesel.. As I asked on my last post, can someone comment on the function of the plunger looking thing on top of the injector?
Thanx again for all your informative posts
regards, nicolas boretos
Reply to
Nicolas Boretos
The "plunger looking thing" could be a fuel or water tap. Our twin Bolinder has something quite close in appeareance. It could also be the needle valve control for the fuel injector if that is what the main body is. Thus a screw-in or out rather than up and down motion.
See:
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Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
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Reply to
Prepair Ltd
I thought I'd done that!
"">> And the gizmo on top of the injector?
""Control for turning the spindle/needle/what have you, which adjusts ""the spray angle for idle running (wide spray into hot bulb) or ""working ""under load(narrow jet direct into cylinder).
(wide spray is also for starting)
Cheers Tim
Reply to
Tim Leech
I'd not use brake fluid, it is hygroscopic and carries/attracts water in suspension. Better use diesel or a recognised penetrant.
Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
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Reply to
Prepair Ltd
Re the head gasket, they're often fibre rather than copper on this type of engine, easy enough to make your own, but try to get an idea as to the thickness of the original when you dismantle it.
Cheers Tim
Reply to
Tim Leech

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