Mystery Engine

I've been musing over the identity of the engine on the generating set in this picture for a while now:

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It's a snip from a larger image showing a steam traction engine crane loading a railway cart (the major subject of the picture), however I'm intrigued at the identity of the engine. Any ideas? I don't know the answer to this one so all suggestions gratefully received.

Regards

Dan

Reply to
Dan Howden
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Dan.. It has a few lister like bits sticking out, the oil filler is very lister like and the gen looks very simular, allthough the flywheels dont look right also the ex. manifold looks a bit wrong, is that part of the starting soleniod behind the cast bracket on the bottom right ?

Regards bob

Reply to
Bob

Lister never fitted external oil filters until the air-cooled engines came along, so that's a non-runner :-))

The flywheels don't look equal in size, the 'manifold' comes apparently out of thin air.

Do we know for sure it 'is' an engine?

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

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Reply to
Prepair Ltd

Is it an early Pelapone??, trying to remember one I saw back in the 70's. It had the Lister look about it but had more add on's, can't remember if the flywheels were solid or spoked.

Regards

Andy M

Reply to
andyengine

It seems a tad short compared with its width when considering the normal proportions of such things. Could it be half an engine?

1920's early 30's?
Reply to
mark.howard10

Could it be a Gardner ? Slightly similar to the Gardner twin 2BCR ? thats on display at the Anson on a similar cast bedplate with open brush dynamo ?

You can see part of the exhaust? manifold sticking out and this is similar in location to the Gardner.

Just my thoughts... Regards David

Reply to
David McC

Thank you for another interesting angle - it could well be a motor-driven compressor or something....

If it's any consolation I have been pondering this on and off at work now for about 6 months, and I've got no further than possibly Pelapone, or perhaps a two-stroke Hamworthy. I'm intrigued by the Gardner angle

- the engine is being loaded onto a Midland Railway company cart in the full image - though that doesn't help greatly with a geographical fix.

Regards Dan

Reply to
Dan Howden

The letters "...rd box liverpool" are on the crane arm. B-)

At the time that photo would have been taken people and machinery didn't move far. For no particular reason "Edward Box" pops into mind.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Looking at the Scaffolding etc in the background, I wonder where it was - an exhibition perhaps & whether it is is being set up on a company stand. That said, you can see where oil has run down it so perhaps not.

For some reason, I wonder if this isn't an early incarnation of Blackpool Pleasure Beach

Reply to
Kim Siddorn

It looks like a hay rake in the background and canvas roof buildings being put up rapidly, I was thinking more army camp.

AJH

Reply to
AJH

How about an auxiliary pumping/compressor set? I am definitely leaning away from an engine, although the Pelapone would be something that would fit best in view of the age etc.

Looking again at the picture, this looks early 1930's to me, does anyone else have any thoughts on the age of the scene?

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

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Reply to
Prepair Ltd

I wondered about that, but would a compressor or pump need that amount of flywheel inertia? Also the manifold on top 'looks' like an exhaust manifold, though that proves nothing. Curious that is seems to have been wrapped in *paper*, half of which is falling off!

Cheers Tim

Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service

Reply to
Tim Leech

What's curious about that? It's probably what I'd call "oiled paper" a stort of heavy brown parcel type paper impregnated with oil.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Looking at a wider view, the picture appears to have been specially posed. The traction engine belongs to Edward Box, Hauliers of Liverpool, the railway wagon is Midland Railway, the venue appears to be the build-up of a big outdoor show, but the location is not obvious.

The Midland Railway served Liverpool, so it could be in that area, although traction engines travelled far and wide. This one was there for unloading this demonstration or exhibition load, there are no other goods visible.

There is none of the rubbish, ropes etc associated with the load being tied to the wagon, so I think it was a publicity shot for Edward Box/Midland Railway.

Box went on to spawn another company in the South West, and was extant up until the 1960's at least, they had light blue Scammells and trailers. So another possibility is a scene at the Royal Bath/Bristol/Cheltenham show? All served by the Midland. Pickfords eventually swallowed them up.

Loads of possibilities, but no further towards an identity of the "engine" !

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

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Reply to
Prepair Ltd

The thick plottens. Thinking about it, where's the horse to pull the cart? What are they going to do with the gen set next? There is no-where to set it down except on the grass. There is absolutely no ancillary clutter about the place - yes, posed, I'd say.

The staff all look a bit pensive to me, like they are deliberately not looking at camera. Hazel & I agree that according to costume, this is early thirties.

Interesting side issue - the temporary buildings are roofed with what appears to be canvas tarpaulin.

Reply to
Kim Siddorn

Curious in that it doesn't strike me as a very durable way to wrap a piece of heavy machinery for moving - a view reinforced by the fact that it's falling off!

Tim Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service

Reply to
Tim Leech

- and tied on with the thinnest of string!

We'll probably never know, but if it is a Midland Railway & Edward Fox photo opp, then I'd suggest the engine has been disguised as the manufacturers had not OK'd it to be in shot.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

- who, upon the 14th of October, has an engagement on a ridge in Sussex. There, sword in hand, he will do his best to turn away the Norman invader but will inevitably die with his king.

Reply to
Kim Siddorn

In that case I've probably got relatives somewhere in that photo!

Reply to
dingbat

Sounds like cheating to me ;-)

Andrew Heggie with only the narrow view.

Reply to
AJH

Well yes but one assumes that the timber packing crate has been removed to allow lifting into position.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

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