Bachmann DCC on board locos

From the Bachmann UK website:-

Press statement - 3 function decoderBachmann Europe Plc has today released further information on its new 3 function decoder. Over the last couple of weeks the subject of our new decoder has been a hot topic and the tone of much of the comment has frequently generated more heat than light. We, therefore, want to state our intentions and clarify some points.

Bachmann listened to customer feedback of the decoder that has so far been used in US 'DCC Onboard' range and in our train sets and we felt that a decoder with superior power control was needed. We were able to provide a decoder that offered high frequency PWM for quite drive, back EMF for superb slow running, and function button control over selection of the inertia and a low shunting speed. This is impressive performance for a decoder in this price bracket and is affordable in a DCC Onboard product (something else customers tell us they want).

The decoder supports short addresses. It does not support advanced consisting. We believe that this decoder is the best way to deliver our DCC On Board range at a competitive price. It's a brand new design tailored to the requirements of the European market where generally loco numbers are five- or six-digit. New European DCC equipment is now including a 'loco name' feature which can be used to display all of the locomotive running number, rather than just the last four digits of a locomotive running number to be used as an identifier on such equipment.

The enhanced performance of this decoder over that previously available means it is our choice for the DCC On Board range where possible. In practice, from the Bachmann Branchline range this will be models other than the Jinty and Pannier where space constraints require the narrow variant of Bachmann decoder will be installed. The DCC On Board range will feature a factory fitted decoder plugged into the socket.

Reply to
John Turner
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John,

An interesting press statement from Bachman, however, it doesn't make sense!

How on earth is a 2 digit address decoder 'tailored' to the requirements of the European market where locos are 5 or 6 digit ???? 5 or 6 doesn't go into 2!!! As far as I am aware, the majority of European DCC equipment is 4 digit. So why are manufacturers introducing 2 digit old technology and trying to market it as some kind of new innovation ?

The whole issue of loco names and displaying entire loco numbers has got nothing to do with decoders - it's a feature provided by the command station. This is obscuring the issue that old decoder technology is being masked.

Just as well it does contain a socket, because I can see the vast majority of DCC users with 'proper' 4 digit systems taking these 2 digit decoders out and fitting proper decoders in instead. The fact that the Bachmann decoder has BEMF is nice, but I'm afraid that I won't be using 2 digit crippled decoders like this.

It appears to me that obsolete products from another supplier who has long since upgraded to 4 digit are being re-introduced!

Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

I think Bachmann is referring to the "loco name" feature. Gets around the limitations of both 2 and 4 digit addressing wrt Yurpeen locos. In effect extends the NMRA spec, it seems (which was based on N. American practice.)

Looks like Bachmann assumes that most of its customers will not run more than 99 locos at a time, so 2-digits are enough.

HTH

Reply to
Wolf K

wrote

No need really if they continue to produce DCC ready locos, but I have to say that this news is encouraging in as much as I originally thought that Bachmann would resort to building cheap & nasty decoders into the loco PCB, which would mean a complete strip out and hard-wire for those wanting to use a higher spec decoder.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

I agree with you on the issue of building decoders into the PCB.

However, I am of the firm belief that 4 digits has long since been a standard and Bachmann are using the 'naming' feature as an excuse to mask and prolong the introduction of outdated technology. The UK has been served by 4 digit systems for years. Why is it going backwards with old technology which is incompatible with technology which is now the standard globally ? Manufacturers should NOT under any circumstances be introducing 2 digit systems. These are 10 years out of date and cause problems with standards which have long since been resolved outside of the UK. It seems to me like Bachmann have purchased some obsolete equipment from some other manufacturer. Why not just do the job properly in the first place ? At least Gaugemaster went for a reasonable 4 digit system!

Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

I totally agree. Any chips that come with bachmann locos are going iether on e-bay or will be used for cab/ coach lighting

Reply to
Piemanlarger

Loco name feature? Never heard of this Wolf, would you care to pass on some more details?

If it's sizeable you can mail me off list at ian at birchenough dot demon dot co dot uk

Reply to
Ian Birchenough
[This is a quote from Bachmann:]

[...]

Look at the quote (provided by a previous poster) I isolated from my post. Bachmann is claiming that they have added "loco name" to their DCC On Board system. Exactly what they have done is not clear. My guesses follow.

"Loco name" is either an added function (in the range specified as "future use" in the NMRA spec), or else an aliasing feature incorporated into the controller. If it's the former, it would require a CV and a few bytes of memory on the chip, and it would work with any loco-name enabled controller display. If it's the latter, it would work only with the controller used to program that loco. I have no idea which it is.

BTW, if the feature permitted more than five or six digits, but a couple of dozen characters or more, it could be used to display the actual name of the loco, eg, "Cookham Manor". Bachmann could steal a march on its competition by extending the loco name feature this way.

HTH

Reply to
Wolf K

"Ian Birchenough" wrote

I have an ESU Mobile (wireless) controller which allows you to allocated a 'name' to any loco address.

So for instance if you use two digit addressing and have several class 20 locos, and generally use the class number as your address, with the ESU controller you can readily give them totally unconnected addresses but allocate the actual loco number as 'names' - say 20022 and 20200, and the ESU will convert that to read the actual decoder address.

Hope that makes sense.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

They have not claimed to have added 'loco name' to the on-board system, they stated that since most modern command stations have a 'loco name' feature there is no need for more than 2 digits as the command station can translate the 2 digit number and display whatever you want. (The Bachmann command station allows you to write the name in yourself alongside the address button, like an old push button phone).

Keith

Reply to
Keith

That really just masks the fact that this is 10 year-old out-of-date

2-digit technology having its life extended a little by the addition of the 'naming' feature on the command station. At the same time, this old technology will cause incompatibilities in the market place, incompatibilities which have long since been resolved in the global market space where 4 digit NMRA standards have been the norm for many years now.

It does nothing for people with more than 100 locos (not me personally) or clubs.

Graham Plowman

Reply to
gppsoftware

The pricing of decoders has more to do with what the market will stand than what they cost to make. I suspect the 2 digit "crippling" of this decoder is just to make sure that the market for more expensive units isn't destroyed. That policy may be Bachmann's own, or imposed on them by the actual manufacturer - presumably this is a Lenz decoder in all but name.

Personally, I could get by with a 2-digit decoder in most of my locos, since I don't have fleets of each class (one 25, one 50, one 40 etc.). I'm also unlikely to get anywhere near 99 locos. If it's cheap (have I seen £7 mentioned?) and turns out to work well enough, I can see me using them in some cases.

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian B

Where did this come from? URL if you please.

-- Cheers

Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

formatting link

Reply to
Roger T.

The statement?

As Graham has said, there is a load of flannel/BS in this statement to cover up the fact that they haven't adopted 4 digit addressing for this decoder. A 2 digit address decoder is unacceptable for most DCC users today.

However there is some truth in the reference to new DCC systems with a "loco name" "alpha-numeric labelling" "aliasing" "alpha-numeric display of loco name" or whatever you wish to call it, feature.

Most new systems being released by European manufacturers have this new facility and very useful it will be too. No more having to use the 4 digit address to find or call up your loco. No more having to remember the 4 digit id or having to look it up on a crib sheet. Simply use the name you have chosen and call it up. Having this feature will improve usability for a lot of people.

New systems with such a feature include: Hornby Elite (also to be sold as a Lima, Electrotren and Joeuf) Roco MultiMouse ESU ECoS

My question is: If you have this labelling feature, what is the problem with using 2 digit address decoders, apart from limiting the total number of locos to 99 or 127 ? Are there other limitations such as available CV's ?

Arthur Brain

Reply to
Arthur Brain

None.

No, there's no reason for a 2 digit decoder to be lower spec in other respects, other than a commercial decision (or c*ck up!) by the manufacturer.

MBQ

Reply to
manatbandq

That surely is exactly the point. It's a commercial decision, not a c*ck-up. If Bachmann decided to start selling silent-drive back-EMF decoders with

4-digit addressing for 8 quid (I saw 'em in my local shop yesterday), that would tread on the toes of Lenz who don't sell anything but the MAC decoder for less than £15. Bachmann, have probably imposed the 2-digit limit as a way of selling a decoder which will operate well, especially on their trainset DCC controller. If the new decoder was 4-digit, I doubt Lenz would be selling very many "Silvers".

I don't buy this "A 2 digit address decoder is unacceptable for most DCC users today.". It's an inconvenience to anyone with a "grown up" DCC system. Bachmann are trying to extend the appeal of DCC to the entry and intermediate levels of our hobby. I suspect that most of their customers don't have more than 99 locos and don't have multiples of each class, and therefore the new decoder will be perfectly acceptable to them..

At the end of the day, it's a case of living with the deliberate limitation of the £8 decoder or paying twice that for a full-spec device. You pays your money...

I'd love Bachmann to sell a rebadged Lenz Gold for a fiver, but it isn't going to happen until there is a bigger market and therefore more competition. Perhaps in a year or two.

Adrian B

Reply to
Adrian B

"Adrian B" wrote

That sums up my feelings to Adrian. I'm still using a Lenz Compact which only offers 2-digit addressing so it doesn't impact on me at all.

I'd have thought that those with 'grown up' systems would want the all-singing all-dancing decoders, so quite why some are whingeing at an entry level decoder I fail to understand.

John.

Reply to
John Turner

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx WELL THEN?

Provided the performance of this decoder is good, and 3 functions is sufficient, then for people who only require 2 digit addresses OR have a system with an Alpha numeric labelling feature, this decoder will be a breakthrough in cost terms.

I also can't see a problem with a price range covering decoders from basic/entry level to Lenz Gold or better. Provided the decoders are competent performers across the board. You pays your money......

.
Reply to
Arthur Brain

"John Turner" wrote

I'd have thought that those with 'grown up' systems would want the all-singing all-dancing decoders, so quite why some are whingeing at an entry level decoder I fail to understand.

John.

When Sound decoders are also £5, count me in, till then, I'l just have to keep placing orders for Lenz Silver (Much better value I think than the gold which has more on it that I don't need that what I do !

Reply to
Andy Sollis

"Andy Sollis" wrote

Yup, they're now my standard 'fleet' decoder, and I'm 99% happy with the performance I get with them. I'd be even happier if they make the wires about ½" longer!

John.

Reply to
John Turner

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