Fred Dibnah

He deserved some sort of official honour too. Should have been an OBE years ago. What a hero! Mike H

Hi Mike

Fred turned out in top hat when he was made an MBE at Buckingham Palace in July. ("I'm an old fashioned bloke and it is nice for the old school to get some recognition,") he said. He was just a great bloke and a unique character; he will be sorely missed. His passion for Victorian engineering caused the breakdown of his first of three marriages, and in recent years clashed with his neighbours for attempting to build a mineshaft in the back garden of his home in Bolton, Top man as he said "Old School."

All the best Steve.

I believe he did get an MBE. Check out

Once again caused by a road vehicle driver (bridge strike, anyone?) No doubt the handwringers will be calling for billions to be spent making the railways totally safe, then satisfied with a job well done they will go out and join the motorised carnage (over 3,000 deaths per year, folks) on the way home.

As a regular on FGW HSTs it was a bit sobering to see one in concertina style, though.

Guy

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote

Just contemplate Guy how many people walked away from this tragedy with minimal injuries. Speaks volumes for the quality of design of the Mk3 coaching stock.

John.

Indeed. It looks like another "if only" situation. The train appears to have remained upright, and probably would have remained so if there hadn't been a set of points just after the level-crossing to pull part of the train off the track.

I really hope that the suspicions of suicide are untrue. That just doesn't bear thinking about.

Lets hope that we can keep this in context. This rare accident won't even break the average *daily* death toll on the roads. Of course that's of no comfort to the families of those who died.

Adrian

Adrian wrote:-

A spokesman for the RMT claimed that half of all such level crossing 'accidents' were suspected suicides.

(kim)

When I see what RMT spokesmen say, I reflect that I am glad to be a member of ASLEF Brian

Going by what I've seen scraped off in Eastleigh works he mightn't be too far wrong, though most just stand/lay in the way.....

I hear the train driver drowned trapped in the cab, I hope thats not the case.

One thing the french seem to have right is the protection of "high-speed" lines from road traffic intrusion, Great Heck now has a concrete stopper on the motorway embankment, 6 feet to the left through the field however....And they still havn't extended the motorway armco barrier, frightened of it sending the "wrong" signals?

Perhaps the HST, heavy though it is, needs the lower section changed so something cannot wedge under it and lift it?

Niel.

Why can't the signals which come off after the barrier has been activated be over-ridden by sensors detecting something on the line? Simple device attached to diagonally opposite posts seems a trivial solution.

Ken

You might reduce accidents that way, but it is likely to be very hard to stop people intent on suicide. Apparently most level crossing 'accidents' are attributed to suicide. If detectors of some sort are known to be present, these people will just attempt to keep out of the active area. So you could spend a lot of money on detectors and achieve very little.

Mark Thornton

Don't forget that there are no level crossings on the UK's French-style high-speed line, either.

There have been a few TGV/road vehicle collisions on level crossings on conventional French lines:

Would be a bit difficult to park a car unobtrusively. And don't announce what,where,why.how. If people are stupid enough to get picked up by glaringly obvious CCTV's, I can't see them searching for tiny infra-red devices

Ken.

Absolutely. And frankly if there hadn't been a point there I am pretty sure the train would have stayed upright.

Is it sacrilegious to hope the HST set survives? They are my favourite trains (I'm a cyclist, as you know).

I asked in Reading station if there was a collection going for the driver's family, but they didn't know. Seemed a bit surprised to be asked.

Guy

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote

Not so sure; there's a left hand bend at or about the point the wrecked train ended up. That in itself might have caused it to derail.

One thing for sure, if those people had been invoved in an impact like that at 100mph in any other form of transport then I doubt if any would have survived.

John.

I am surprised that half barriers exist where there is a high line speed. Would it not be possible to have full barriers, but move them a little further away from the track, so that if someone broke down genuinely on a crossing, there would be enough room to push a car or van off the tracks even if the barriers did come down? (I do reaslise that this would not have had any effect in this case, but is there any way of preventing carnage by anyone who wants to take their own life in such a selfish, public way?). I wonder if one of the national enthusiast magazines would like to co-ordinate a voluntary fund for the relatives of the victims?

"Jon" wrote

You can do anything if you're prepared to meet the cost including eliminating crossing and replacing them with bridges and or tunnels.

Cost, however, is the key factor in all *rail safety improvements* - it was reported last night that it costs around GBP1,000,000 to install CCTV cameras at a crossing, and I would guess at least 5 x that amount to convert an AHB crossing to one with full barriers. I hate to think of the costs with bridges and tunnels.

Consider that for as long as I can remember there have been more people killed each year on just Lincolnshire's roads than on the entire rail network. That alone suggests to me that if we have billions of pounds to spend on safety issues then maybe we should start by rebuilding some of the notorious roads in that particular county.

All of that aside, it sounds as though this particular tragedy might possibly have been caused by someone hell-bent on commiting suicide. With the best will in the world had he wanted to park his car on a fully-barriered crossing then I'm sure he could have found a way.

John.

I assume that quoted figure must include a house in France and Florida for all those at Network Rail as part of the deal.

A million quid would pay good wages and allow a crossing to be manned for a 100 years, as well as building a crossing keepers house at each location.

Pete

"mutley" wrote

It's not just a question of banging a couple of cameras and floodlights up.

Firstly the site will have to be surveyed, a scheme designed, drawings made and H&SE approval sought.

Then there's the poles the cameras and light sit on, they have to be secured deep into the ground to ensure they are safe in all weather conditions, sometimes miles of cabling back to the nearest signalling centre, and of course a back-up system in the event of failure.

Don't foget that to comply with H&S regulations the site will have to secure, possibly entailing a possession, there will be the wages of the designers, civil engineers S&T staff and so on ..........................

John.