Hornby 2005

OK - I missed those announcements. They need to get "Rivarossi" production back on the US market as it seems every man and his dog is marketting new, "state of the art" models there. Rivarossi/Hornby can certainly fill the lower price, adequate/good scale model category if they're reasonably quick. Roco is steadily chewing away at Rivarossi/Lima's model range with superior products so they need to get back relatively quickly. I guess Heljan is only going to pick a loco a year off Lima's range so they can better afford to wait. European N fans are screaming for Arnold/Riv/Lima. Probably US N fans ditto.

Would there be any market for Scalextric in Italy??? Perhaps a few Ferrari and Fiat bodies would make a difference? ;-)

Regards, Greg.P.

Should I pass on my European shopping list to Hornby??? ;-)

There's (at least) three sectors to the model railway market:

- collectors,

- modellers,

- toy market.

I'll guess you're in the modellers sector, which is probably the smallest of the three. The collectors don't care how the models run, just how they look, but probably read reviews and reject models with bad running reviews.

You want the looks and perfect operating - but you'll spend the same amount per year whatever the model price.

The toy buyers (that's well up into the modelling category) want adequate looks, reliable adequate operation and a low(ish) price.

If I were Hornby I wouldn't aim my models at you. (I mean that kindly ;-)

OK, if Heljan put their 33 on the market at say 100 pounds and Hornby resurrect the Lima

33 at say 33 pounds, between them they've covered the three market sectors, but Heljan gets the collectors and serious modellers while Hornby gets the toy and less serious modeller sales.

Regards, Greg.P.

Claughton, anyone? :-D

Don't think big diesels think small. Its definetely one of those 'I don't believe it' moments... Don't ask me why they have decided to do this class of engine as it has already been done in the past few years.

"Chris Wilson" wrote

The relatively few second-hand ones which come on the market get snapped up because there are so few of them available. The sad fact is that when the Lima range was *readily* available, it just didn't sell. Why do you think the last batch of loco's which were made available were priced to sell below GBP30.00 when the previous releases were price at around GBP55.00?

Even the much sought after Mk3 coaching stock (including Sleepers & TGS cars) sat on our shelves for month after month a created very little interest. So don't assume there's a killing to be made by Hornby in resurrecting the Lima range. If Lima had been at all successful they wouldn't have gone bust.

John.

"Gregory Procter" wrote

The reality is that model railways is still a small market and for a model to be successful it needs to score in all three of those sectors. Hornby tried to get away by selling crap for many years, but when Bachmann appeared on the scene and produced better quality products which not only looked reasonable, but worked well too, Hornby realised that they needed to pull up their socks big style.

Now I tend to think Hornby have caught up and in many repects surpassed the efforts of Bachmann, at least with the likes of the class 50 diesel and the very latest Gresley A4 models (which are really superb).

Only a set of idiots would backtrack on those achievements and open themselves up to ridicule by re-releasing much of the rubbish which was previously sold under the Lima brand name.

John.

Enzo Matrix wrote:-

The rebuilt Claughton is a steady seller in kit form which suggests there is a viable market in RTR. Likewise the Fairburn.

(kim)

John Turner wrote:-

The announcement of (say) an all-new Class 47 from Hornby wouldn't necessarilly stop me from buying Heljan's version. It would depend on livery, regional allocation, timescale of availability or some other tiny personal prefererence as yet not obvious.

(kim)

"kim" wrote

I think there would be a useful market for the Fairburn which sits nicely in the most modelled era - the BR transitional period from steam to diesel. Had the BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4T and the Fowler 2-6-4T both not already been released in recent years, then I'd say the Fairburn would be a sure winner. As it is another 2-6-4T in such a short period would make its viability questionable.

The Claughton, much though I personally love the prototype is almost exclusively pre-nationalisation, and with a respect represents an era of declining modelling interest. I wouldn't risk my money in tooling up for one.

John.

I know... I think I've bought most of 'em... ;-)

...

Wouldn't disagree with you in principle, however I would argue that there are certain selected models that could and would sell well. Also and I know that this has been discussed and discounted before but I still think that it may possible to actually re launch quite a large proportion of the old Lima range virtually unaltered but sell them as a budget line.

The current Hornby range knocks spots of the stuff of only a few years ago ... but at a price, likewise the Bachman stuff, a wider availability and choice of cheaper "starter sets" I'm sure would find a ready market ... just my 2ps worth ...

"Chris Wilson" wrote

The concept sounds fair enough except that Hornby have never have a cheap budget philosophy, and bear in mind that it costs relatively little more in China to produce a quality loco as opposed to an average or budget loco, so the cost saving potentials are relatively small. It certainly costs as much to ship a crap loco from China to the UK as a good one, although there may be a miniscule saving in respect of the weight of a cheaper loco, but barely worth considering.

Lower prices equate to lower profit, and with the market working at or near to capacity at the moment I just don't see the point in trying to squeeze a few more sales at the risk of potentially damaging the profitable end of the market.

I reckon Hornby are already exploring this potential. They have train sets in just about every retail multiple that exists this year, with the result that sales are apparantly being squeezed in their traditional outlets. Certainly we've *broken* more sets into individual items than in the past. My guess is that train set sales next year will suffer to some extent to pay for this year's growth.

Hornby's high price and high quality on their latest products seems to be paying off to some extent, but it's amazing how quickly the market becomes saturated. I can't remember the last time we sold a Merchant Navy for instance, and sales of the more recent Q1 are now non-existant, although that may not be the case all over the country.

John.

Well without sounding to political the answer to that one's easy. Since the socialists took over in Parliament my disposable income has fallen by over a

1/3, fresh meat from the butchers is now a treat rather than routine, instead of a new book every month (I'm an avid reader) it's one a quarter, my printer is sat here on the desk in front of me useless as I can't afford to buy new ink cartridges 'till after the next payday and so forth ... my friends report very much of the same. Taking no account of inflation I now have less money in my pocket at the end of the month than I did 14 years ago when I was paid a 1/3 of what I'm paid today, factor in inflation and the situation gets worse ...

... there's nothing I'd like more than to pop into a shop such as yours at least once a month and say, "Please sell me one of those superb xxxxx, oh and put half a dozen carriages to go with it in the bag as well". The simple fact I can't afford to do so, I bought a couple of new engines at our local show a few months ago and that's my budget - gone. Christmas is coming and my good lady wife has bought me that variable temperature soldering iron I've been on about all year, fortunately I have solder and flux already and a couple of kits bought as presents to build up, if I hadn't it's be spring before I could actually get to play with it ...

There haven't been many small diesels released recently and assuming you know something which the tone of your post suggests you do, the only candidate that fits is the 08. To be honest, if this is correct, I suspect that it will turn out to be a poor decision unless they go all out and make it something special. The comparisons to the 50 suggest that they might.

The Bachmann model is pretty good though, the only way I can think of that they could compete if they did release a new 08 would be if they included:

• lights

• better pickups

• driver and shunter

• DCC socket

• smoke generator.

In all honesty, I've never had a problem with pickups but enough people have complained about current collection on the Bachman model. The only stuff missing from the Bachmann model I've listed above. What do others think? Is there a major weakness in the Bachmann model I've missed and everyone else that Hornby could exploit with a better model?

I hope I'm wrong. Maybe you're suggesting it's an 04 or something although Bachmann's model hasn't 'come out relatively recently' and been 'super detailed' like the articles have suggested in relation to the new Hornby diesel. The only sensible suggestion I have heard for Hornby repeating a recently produced model is that they started design first and decided to continue when the 'other' manufacturer brought it out. The only obvious models for this are the Deltic and Western and maybe the Hymek or 40s or Peaks.

Apologies for the ranting but I'm confused as to what Hornby are trying to do by repeating another manufacturer's model when there's plenty of models that haven't been done and would seem to be popular choices, especially in the current popular modelling period of the 50s to 70s, and if it's an 08 I'm EXTREMELY confused...

I don't think your experience is typical. Most people I know are doing quite well, and where there are problems the cause is not related to the current or previous governments. Remember that under previous Tory administrations, certain groups had a rough time while others made hay (as they say).

More realistically I think model trains just seemed to disappear from the big toy shops for a number of years. They may be back now, but smaller shops aren't going to see a sudden increase in trade as a result. A friend of my son's is getting a new set for Christmas (presumably from one of the big places), but his parents didn't know that the small model shop in town existed. Now they do, and with a bit of luck it might get some custom when the time comes to extend the set.

As for us, after 4 new engines since October, perhaps some extra coaches might be useful, but otherwise I need to lay a bit more track before extending the fleet makes sense.

Mark Thornton

....

I bought one fairly recently and yes, I had a problem from the off with current collection, within a couple of hours though I had fitted new (additional) pick-ups to the back of the wheels similar in design to the suggestions published by a really good modern image website (I forget the name - sorry!) and it's since worked an absolute treat.

In message , John Turner writes

It seems to be the case round my way as well John, A new loco sells well when it is released then dwindles to almost nothing. The problem this causes is that ordering is hell. If you order

120 of a new loco in anticipation of having it for a major exhibition and it doesn't arrive in time, then you sell the normal number out through the shop and the others are left filling your shelves selling in ones and twos. If you order enough for the shop they last 40 seconds at the exhibitions.

Sad to say I think you're wrong but I do take on board what you say below ...

Oh all quite true but again I have to point out that as I live in a London borough I don't just have the additional stealth taxes every one has to pay, loss of married mans allowance, mortgage relief and increased costs (such as simply paying for th petrol to get to work) and so forth but we've had an entirely new level of additional taxation added to our bills to pay for Livingston and his publicity machine, of course people in London aren't alone in this, for instance the folks in Wales and Scotland have also had a new raft of taxation imposed to provide for European regionalisation disguised as "home rule" with other "regions" likewsie identified ... and to which the clearly evident fact that the only area which has seen growth in employemnt is the public sector (a cynic like myself would suggest that this is only so that true umemployment my be disguised) would sugest most strongly that taxation is going to continue to rise further ... public sector wages have to be paid for out of taxation revenue and the future looks bleak indeed ... anyway I'm off back to uk.politics.misc, shouldn't really rant on about politics here ... *sorry*

Fashion?

My son got his first train set when if I'm being honest he was to young ... because of course it was me who wanted to get back in to model railways, since then his set has grown and it's not a "real layout", needles to say he has friends round to play, they take one look at the set and generally go "Wow!" they really do want to get stuck in, of course they then go home and it becomes, "Daddy ... can I have a train set please, please, please ..." and as a consequence I know as an absolute fact that three of his mates now have train sets of their own, one of which has become quite an extensive loft layout ... but I'd guess that if they'd never seen my son's layout they wouldn't have considered asking for model trains ...

...

Well if you and John between have a Bachmann Class 20, all green with indicator disks you need to get rid of at a special low, low, low clearance price in order to make space on your shelves ... :-)