Killing the goose

I have to disagree. I wouldn't call not ever being able to get hold of a Bachmann model "slightly under producing". Clearly Bachmann don't give a toss if I buy their product or not and if I can't buy their product that my local dealer goes out of business because he can't sell as much as he could. Personally I don't give a damn about second hand prices. I jut want to buy the new product. Take the Cl 20 with chip and sound. 18 months ago Bachmann were telling me that there was absolutely no market for pre-chipped locos and why should they bother to supply them. Their words. Now I wanted a cl 20 so when a few months later they announce launching a pre-chipped cl 20 I was surprised and put off the purchase. Now I find the first batch sold out in next to no time and the next batch is due in July so that probably means next January and the chances of getting one of them will be diddley squat. I sometimes wonder why I bother ever thinking of buying Bachmann when they cleary don't want me as a customer, whereas Hornby do.
Kevin

"Kevin" wrote
That's a nonsense, and I suspect the problem is with your retailer and not Bachmann. We've never failed to provide any of our customers with a Bachmann item which they've pre-ordered.
John.

I'm begining to suspect you have a good relationship with Bachmann, so as my local toy shop has given up perhaps my occasional order should go your way ! Maybe a G2 for next xmas ?
Cheers, Simon

So it is my retailers fault that the digital Cl 20 isn't available. I've had constant dialogue with my retailer about the Bachmann supply situation and he despairs as much as I do. Last year I bought just two Bachmann models, Ivatt 4mt and B1 Oliver Bury. Couldn't get the 9F that I wanted and now it is availabe I have lost interest. I would have bought a Cl 20 if it had been available. In the same period from the Hornby camp I have bought 2 A3's, Britannia, M7, West Country, Bubble Car and GWR dmu and yet Bachmann have got it right and Hornby haven't. What a bizarre business model railways is when supplying what the customer wants is wrong, not supplying what the customer wants is right. If the customer comments on this situation he is talking nonsense and if their is a supply problem it is the retailers fault.
Kevin

I notice that you mentioned pre-ordered and over what time scale did customers have to wait? If it comes down to having to pre-order why do we need retailers anyway. They are just an unnecessary middleman that adds to the cost. We could just order on-line direct from the manufacturer, cut out the middleman and get a much reduced price. I sometimes wonder if I am in the right hobby if when expecting to buy things I am talking nonsense.
Kevin

"simon" wrote
I like to think that I (we) have a good relationship with all our suppliers. They get paid (very) quickly for sure, so maybe that's why we usually get all we order.
You're very welcome, but you'll have to contact me direct - I don't accept orders on newsgroups.
John.

"Kevin" wrote
I don't know the ins and outs Kevin, but manufacturers are there to sell their products and it is in their interests to get products into their outlets. If they fail to do that with one particular retailer then usually there is a very good reason.
John.

It is worrying that some retailers "appear" to be getting preferential treatment. On the one hand we are encouraged to supoort local traders but when they can't supply or go out of business we are forced into the hands of the less appreciative online reatilers who have the clout with the suppliers.
Kevin

Kevin said the following on 05/04/2007 08:43:
A lot of this comes down to the relationship with the manufacturers. A major part of my professional role is as a buyer (sorry - Supply Chain Manager!) in the manufacturing industry, and I know that we get preferential treatment from some suppliers because I've worked at building a good relationship with them. In the other direction I know that some of our customers get treated better than others because some are a real PITA to deal with and with others we're willing to go that extra mile.

There was a post a few weeks back about the closure of a dealer in Cambridge and some criticism about the lack of support shown to local dealers. My point is that even when you want to support a dealer that dealer doesn't get the support from the suppliers. It is too easy to say that there is a supply problem therefore it must be the dealers fault. The late delivery of the Ivatt and the inadequate suplly of the Cl 20 is not down to my dealer, that problem lies farely and squarely at Bachmann's door and its policy of undersupply. You alluded to the fact. Model railways are going the way of a few dominant retail and web based suppliers. Now lets think how the dominance in the supermarket business has affected the grocery and pharmacy businesses.
Kevin

"Kevin" wrote
They have to wait until the model in released by the manufacturers, but usually retailers are all supplied within a day or two of each other, and *we* usually ship on the day that stocks are received.
There's no *need* to pre-order, but in our case it guarantees that you actually get a model allocated and get it pretty much immediately it is released. Clearly we order enough models to cover all those we have on pre-order plus additional examples to cover what we estimate will sell in the shop within a reasonable period of time - and crucially within our payment budget.
Don't think for a minute that eliminating retailers would reduced prices; quite the contrary. Hornby, for instance seem happy to sell on-line direct to the public, but all items are at RRP. It is only competition between retailers that keeps prices as low as they are.
We aim to have all items on our shelves which are currently available from the manufacturers and a good selection of those which have already been sold out by them thus providing a showcase for those manufacturers' products. As examples of the latter we still have limited stocks of some Bachmann 9Fs, Ivatt 2-6-2T and 108 dmus.
Don't forget that most quality retailers will offer a pre-sale loco testing facility along with technical advice and many other ancialliary fringe products. Can you imagine the cost involved if you suddenly needed a tinlet of Humbrol paint and the only way to source it was by mail order? My guess is that GBP1.15 pot of paint would probably end up costing you closer to a 'fiver' when all postage & packing charges were taken into account - assuming of course that you could find a retailer willing to handle such a small order. It's only the profit (however small) from the ready-to-run ranges which allows that level of service to be provided.
John.

100% of my purchases are by mail order of some kind (except once when I visited Epsom to see my brother). In general, the RRP prices are well out of my price range (everything in the UK seems to be 50% dearer than in Europe). I can see the discounts offered in many places which suit me. Equally, I can often buy second hand because I have sourced the parts suppliers and have the ability to repair or make bits and pieces.
Even in the far off days when farthings were real money and we sold jam tarts at 1 3/4d the large seaside customers enjoyed greater discounts that the small workers cafés. They all existed because of customer loyalty ( and the transport limitations of that era). A friend of mine in Nailsea (Som) had a small, very well stocked model shop but had severe steamroller type competition each Xmas from WH Smith at Clevedon. By the end of Jan they would disown all responsibility and they sent all problems to people like my friend.

Your right, it probably wouldn't but doesn't alter the fact that the dealer just becomes an unnecessary cost in the supply chain, as the vast majority of middlemen are. I would like to see car dealers eliminated and car buyers go direct to the manufacturers. Car dealers take a large markup just to take an order, perhaps arrange a test drive and do a few pre delivery checks, most of which are missed out anyway.
Kevin

"Kevin" wrote
As a retailer you'd expect me to disagree, but for the majority of potential newbies into this great hobby of ours, the local model shop (where one existst) is the only place they'll get a serious introduction to the various products available. If the retailer wasn't there how would the manufacturer get their produce widely in front of their potential customers? Of course they could use TV and national advertising, but the costs there are phenomenal.
Retailing certainly would not have survived all these years if they were not making a cost-effective contribution to the supply chain.
I've no serious comment to make about the motor trade, although it's unlikely that I would buy a car on-line, but I am aware of that industry's reputation and limitation. I think you'd also be surprised just how small a standard trade discount the motor trade works on. Much of their profit comes from sales volume related retrospective commissions, which partly explains why there can be some fantastic discounts available at certain times of the year, and why they tend to skimp in areas of preparation and servicing.
John.

Of course, its a private transaction, but depends on when Bachmann actually release !
Cheers, Simon

"simon" wrote
Probably sometime in 2008! ;-)
John.

Not fair, I wanted to say that or worse !
Cheers, Simon

"simon" wrote
Bachmann have already indicated that some of the 'new' items listed in the 2007 catalogue will not appear this year; still at least we are currently being treated to some fabulous completely new wagons by Bachmann, with OBAs, OCAs all having hit the shelves in the past few weeks, and there's still some new vans to appear in the near future.
Wonder when Hornby will realise that high quality wagons will sell quickly and at attractive prices? They seem to have forgotten that aspect of the market completely, just being happy to re-issue expensive ex-Lima junk.
John.

oh dear, can we know what - in the loco 00 range ?
Cheers, Simon