Layout design

That's not how it works. You have to make a case that not doing something which wasn't even necessary, was a deliberate cost saving measure.

Especially the way these single track lines with block sections between passing places, were operated.

First of all, the distant gives a caution for all the stop signals in the route set up by the box.

The driver would have to be prepared to stop even if not booked to.

Because he cannot know that the next section is clear and needs both the tokens exchanged and the starter signal to be off.

Even forgetting that he might have to stop at the home or outer home (depending on signal placement) while a train enters the other platform.

If he is not booked to stop and can do token exchange while moving, everything still needs to be perfect. He still has to be prepared to stop.

You would have to contrive artificial situations where the distant could be off.

Like RETB, the train not booked to stop and the next block clear. But this wasn't steam era, and how many preservation lines use that (apart from the Ravenglass and Eskdale who invented it)?

Even when the box is switched out it tells the driver to slow down for the station.

No. Something that simply isn't needed.

It would be like having a switchable red/greed light on a buffer stop. Would you even bother doing that?

A cursory search shows the other companies also used fixed distants in similar situations.

Feel free to demonstrate that it was a deliberate cost saving measure rather than simply not doing something that wasn't even needed in the first place.

Until then there is simply nothing to disagree about.

On 05/11/2006 15:24, Steve W said,

Stan? He the one that always come up with devilish ideas :-)

I get it now! He's the chap that comes up with the timetables....

"...for the gainful employment of printers, for the amusement of railway staff, and for the torture of innocent passengers.." as was once said.

Cheers, Steve

Then you are clueless as to what "Approach Caution" is and why it's used, it would be simpler not to have the distance at all if approach caution was not needed.

thing is

website

Yes, search engine spiders and such browsers as text to speech browsers, all they will ever 'see' is your caustic comment!

I decided that although

problems.

Everything that can be done with frames can be done without, indeed even more can be done if one starts to think in terms of php or asp.

On 05/11/2006 17:32, Jerry said,

This would be an issue for a site selling stuff, but mine isn't so I'm not worried. My signature is quite liberally scattered around! (Just noticed - my domain name agent has been liberal with their redirection page. Hmmm...)

Agreed - with frames my website looks absolutely identical to the previous non-framed version. PHP and ASP are beyond me just now though.

On 05/11/2006 17:08, Steve W said,

You got it!

Blind people can acces the site, JAWS the most common screen reader in the UK handles them okay but it is awkward. The only time we (da2c.org) use frames is to allow somone to upload content using a word processor (Lotus Word Pro is the best for this) - Only used where untrained people may need to update a site. We tried it to let a blind person maintain the site but that did not find favour so we have worked out an alternative approach.

So you should be okay

Mike

So you don't think that those who are blind or have eye sight problems are deserving of your sites content then?!

The problem is not with frames but how they are misused.

Most beginning web designers design for the system they use, not the system the average user has. As well they tend to design to what they have just learned. If they just had a flash course, they use flash whether or not it is relevant to what they are doing.

The experienced designer makes allowances for the system the average viewer has; not a broadband connection, not the current browser, a reasonable chance that it is not the current operating system, not flash friendly, not a 17"+ monitor and so on. They test on multiple browsers, some of them older versions. They seldom use the absolute latest versions of software.

They produce much friendlier sites than new comers.

To be fair to them most new designers don't know any better. They are usually taught on the latest MicroSquish product and become very MS centric. If they are lucky they get a friendly suggestion to visit

(a real site by the way) to learn about bad web design. Then if they haven't been too brainwashed to the Microsoft way they learn from their mistakes and produce better web pages.

Bill Dixon

On 05/11/2006 21:21, Jerry said,

I'm not sure what the connection is there. If you're referring to the text to speech thing, have you seen my site? There's precious little text, and lots of pictures. How would the visually impaired make use of my site? (A serious question.) I have had a look at what will be needed, but honestly can't see what a blind or partially sighted person will get from my site.

When my programming skills reach a suitable level, I will drop frames like a shot. However, I can only work with what I'm able to do now.

PS - ironically, my "caustic comment" isn't even visible! My registering agent wrap the whole site up in their own frame as part of the redirect, and I can't see a way of changing the content of the noframes page.

I do need to work on that.

"Paul Boyd" wrote

When my programming skills reach a suitable level, I will drop frames like a shot. However, I can only work with what I'm able to do now.

Paul, Can't see anything wrong with your site ? I'm quite impressed - although I would luuurrrvvveee to know more about the photo etching ! That was a very interesting topic, if not a little short. Reminds me of school when we made circuit boards. Designed on the old BBC model B, plotted out on this "plotter" that was modified to take a permanent marker, drew on to the PCB the circuit diagram required and then dipped for five mins in the acid bath ! My first 555 timer used that method about 15 years ago and went inside my Airfix Vulcan to make the lights flash. Never did finish it ! (story of my life !)

In message , Paul Boyd writes

I suggest you take a look at

which can also be seen at

Sorry to hijack the thread but do you have a date for the L&Y battery loco, I have info on MR and NSR locos but the L&Y ones I have traced were all over head/third rail, it would be nice to add their battrery loco details. If you are feeling generous a photo of the finished engine would be nice - This is for . . .

Regards

Mike

On 06/11/2006 21:33, Andy Sollis said,

I've just had an article published in Scalefour News giving more detail, and now it's out there I can put the article on my website - I promised first publication to S4News. I've made a note to do this, and I'll shout when it's done! What I will say is that the article deliberately concentrates on the etching process itself as this seems to be the area that's glossed over normally. There are plenty of articles on how to produce artwork (although I could be persuaded!).

The principle is the same, but the detail is a tad different! I was at school just too late to do Computer Studies as a subject, but did lunchtime and evening sessions. Model Bs and TRS80s ruled the roost then! My first computer was a Master 128, then an Acorn A4000 before succumbing to PCs.

On 06/11/2006 21:53, Mike Smith said,

Have a look at

and browse the locos page for brief info.

It would be nice to actually get it finished one day! It has since had the basic coat of paint airbrushed on, and really just needs detail painting to finish. If you look at the Black Hawthorn page on my website, you can just see it poking into shot on the left of the last photo. These locos will be used for a fictitious light railway, so the livery is also fictitious!

On 06/11/2006 22:09, I said,

I meant too early!!!!

"Paul Boyd" wrote

I've just had an article published in Scalefour News giving more detail, and now it's out there I can put the article on my website - I promised first publication to S4News. I've made a note to do this, and I'll shout when it's done!

Model Bs and TRS80s ruled the roost then! My first computer was a Master 128, then an Acorn A4000 before succumbing to PCs.

Paul, Ah, The 128, was that the BBC B with the added key pad that we take for granted now ? We then had the Acorn Archimedes, which were quite fantastic at the time. Brilliant draw program that I have never come across anything half as good since.

I'll check back on the site. Look forward to the article !

Andy