I have just enough room for a 18" x 13' (18" x 20', if I "bend" it around a corner of my room) layout.
When the Bachmann 3F "Jintey" comes on the market, I may purchase one or two and re- kindle my interests in an L.M.S. layout.
Would like to model a small area in the Elvaston, Derbyshire area of England.
Want a limit of no more that 20 goods wagons, 1 or 2 brake vans plus no more that 3 coaches.
Have pretty much of an idea as how to "model" such a freelance layout. But, would like to know what ratio of wagons would be best and what P.O. wagons could be used. By wagon ratio, I mean how many box vans, tank (petrol) wagons, open goods wagons etc.........
I also like the more "unusual" as far as liveries are concerned. Also, would three wheeled coaches be more suited that "bogied" coaches.
There is an interesting discussion of this very subject in "Railway Operation for the Modeller", by Bob Essery. (A very useful book indeed.
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During the 1930s, the LMS had a revenue earining fleet of 285,611 vehicles. The composition of the fleet was as follows:
Open goods wagons 52% Mineral wagons 22% Covered goods vans 18% Cattle vans 3% Rail & timber wagons 3% Brake vans 2% Special wagons 1%
This total was dwarfed by the number of PO wagons, which came to 605,009.
96% of these were open mineral wagons.
The ratios seem clear. For railway owned stock, half of the vehicles should be open goods wagons, one quarter open mineral wagons and the remainder mostly covered vans. For PO vehicles they should almost all be open mineral wagons, but as John Turner quite rightly says, consider what industries your railway is going to serve and then choose accordingly. If there are collieries or quarries in the area then you could realistically have large numbers of PO wagons.
The LMS was pretty strict on the standardisation of liveries. Coaching stock was shopped on a 5 yearly cycle, so by 1928 everything would have been standardised. Before 1928 you could realistically get away with a mix of Midland and LNWR liveries - just make sure that the livery is correct for the coach style.
PO wagons are a different matter and here the choice is entirely up to you.
No, three wheeled coaches would tip over...! :-)
But seriously, the viability of 4 or 6 wheeled coaches depends on the period modelled. I believe that the Board of Trade banned non-bogie vehicles for passenger use before the Grouping, although they were still allowed for use in departmental trains. (Can someone confirm the date?)
Some very rough assumptions on common user wagons - excluding private owners and specials - 44% LMS; 33% LNER; 17% GWR; 6% SR.
Then a 1923 position of 75% open wagons; 20% box vans; 5% other (livestock, equipment, timber etc) accelerating by 1948 to 50%; 45%; 5%.
Private owner (which would include the occasional tank wagon) would be a function of the size of the community and the time of year. But you should look at *local* merchants (ie with Derbyshire addresses); factors such as Stephenson Clarke, Charringtons, J R Wood; occasionally collieries acting as distributors to local traders.
Livery - big letters to c 1935 then small letters (but repaints c. 5 - 7 years)
Life of stock - say 25 years ( ie a wagon built in 1923 would be averagely scrapped in 1948) but there were exceptions (GWR iron underframes lasted longer *unless* they were damaged) and some companies (ie LSWR) built to last
OK folks, I was working from memory and rather understated the "other" wagons. But most of the railway owned mineral wagons would have been in Scotland and Cumbria, so irrelevant to Lawrence. Also we can't compare the total PO wagon population to the LMS wagons, but rather about 44% (ie 250k compared to 285k company stock). Even then, I would argue that a proportion of the PO wagons were trolling around in block mineral trains or hanging around in sidings providing a mobile coal store.
I don't think a Board of Trade ban on non-bogie stock is correct. I only know about the GWR. Although they built their last non-bogie passenger coaches in the early 1900s they were still being used on many branch lines and lesser routes into the 1920s and on lesser branches in the 1930s. I think some dilapidated examples still remained as stock for workmen's trains in Welsh mining areas through the 2nd World War and into nationalisation.
Not knowing the topography of many of the U.K. locations and local industries near Elvaston, could someone give me hints as to what industries would be found in that area.
I have no idea of any kind of what kind of industries would be found near Elvaston.
PB
P.S.
I was born in the small community of Elvaston, in the West Central part of Illinois, here in the U.S.. Hence my choice of Elvaston as a model site.
There were two in public use on the IOW Steam Railway when I visited two weeks ago although one got broke in between my outward and my return journey. Light railway rules and speed limits may have some bearing on the legitimacy of this use.
Elvaston is in Derbyshire, a county that was (is) well known for quarried stone it might not be to unreasonable to have a stone quarry nearby - or at least have stone traffic on your layout. 5 plank mineral wagons, flats (for large rocks) and the like.
From what I know Elvaston is a pretty small place so no major industries in town however you might get away with some form of generic "light engineering" works.
Also as your idea is to have a steam age layout then you'll want a coal siding - not for any engines you might have but for the town. Everybody burnt coal. Also I don't know if Elvaston was big enough for its own gasworks but if it was you might want to model a "gasworks siding" - again lots of coal.
That and some parcels traffic should give you a reasonable amount of variety.
When modelling a UK prototype, just remember that unlike in North America, many industries were not rail connected and didn't have their own private spurs (sidings) like the do/did in North America.
In fact, by North American standards, where every small town would have two three four or more, rail connected industries in the UK were very rare.
It depends what era you're talking about. In the 50s & 60s (when I were a lad) virtually all major & medium sized industries were rail connected.
Just about every town which had a rail connection at least had a goods shed which accomodated wagon load freight for much of the local industry including agriculture and domestic coal supplies, whilst most passenger stations handled parcels traffic and such niceties as racing pigeons.
When I were a lad, also in the 1950s and 60s, the only rail connected industries I can recall in the Portsmouth area were some gas works, the remain of military warehouse sidings near Farlington and the dock yard. A bit further out were a biscuit factory at St Deny's, Southampton Docks and the Fawley Oil refinery
But these are not private sidings. In North American, they're "Team tracks".
Same with the LMS. According to Bob Essery's Midland Coaching Stock book, Midland six wheeled passenger stock lasted in revenue service into the mid 1930s and even up to the start of WWII in some cases - both the early Clayton arc roofed stock and the later Clayton clerestory stock.
i know what you mean ...... i've been past it recently , there don't seem to be a lot of activity these days , i'll have to look on trust to see if anything calls anymore !
btw i was a signalman at spondon crossing signalbox in the early eighties and we use to have two or three trains a day call
a coal train from gedling mid morning most days , a toton old bank trip used call most days on it's way to derby st marys with a ferryvan or continental railtank or two and then in the evening we used to have the acid railtanks from toton can't recall where they originated and the trip used call again this time to pick up
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