Minor ebay gripe

My gripe is sellers who have "private" feedback. I mean, whats the point of feedback at all if prospective buyers cant see what others have said about the seller? I simply wont buy from sellers who have private feedback.

scoot

yeah - I had one selling hornby product from China - I messaged asking how he expected to gain confidence of buyers in this way and his reply was " you could be a crook too .... nothing can confirm someone's honesty other than doing business with them - do business with me and find out"

classic

I went to go back to his auction ,minutes later - NO LONGER A REGISTERED USER

:)

I totally agree with you. I NEVER leave feedback if I win an auction UNLESS the seller leaves it first. I always pay within 10 minutes of winning an auction and I expect a seller to leave me positive feedback as a result.

I recently won 2 auctions and the seller was Rails of Sheffield. They sent me a message asking me to leave feedback but wouldn't leave me any. I'll give you 3 guesses as to whether I left feedback for them or not! ;)

MRN

I totally disagree with you. You're making a profit but STILL expect to get positive feedback first before you'll leave any.

As someone who's making money out of the whole process you - or anyone else selling on E-Bay - should be made to make the first step in the feedback process.

MRN

"scoot" wrote

I've bought a couple of items from one seller who has 'private' feedback, but have to admit I bid initially with some reservations, but everything has turned out ok.

John.

scoot said the following on 22/03/2006 03:51:

I don't think anyone likes private feedback, and it certainly puts me off buying. Contrary to popular belief though, making your feedback private doesn't stop people seeing what you've been buying or selling!

There is one seller who has private feedback who I do buy from though, but that is because I bought several items from him before he hid his feedback, and service was excellent.

I'm sorry but most sellers would agree with me. If you sold a lot on eBay you probably would too.

As others have said, feedback is for after the deal. The deal isn't over until the seller has his funds AND the buyer his goods. The buyer is at the end of that deal, he's the only one who knows the state of the delivered item, he has the advantage - so he should post 1st, not demand */even further advantage/* by insisting on feedback from the seller.

What possible reason has a seller not to leave feedback after he has received it form the buyer? NONE! He must have been happy with the payment or he wouldn't have sent the item!

Buyer pays Seller sends Buyer feeds-back Seller feeds-back

...what could be fairer than taking turns like that? :)

All this said - the odd lost feedback isn't really that important, no matter how much eBay goes on about how it is. I don't bid more $ if someone has

1000+ instead of 20+. I believe the majority are fundamentally good. And 5 years and a 1200+ rating on eBay have completely supported this theory.

So don't let your eBay feedback rating worry you too much. I don't EXPECT feedback. I really don't care if I don't receive it from buyers, (though I am slightly miffed if I don't receive it by return from sellers, but not for long...life's short enough as it is.) Every 3 seconds a child dies from poverty they say, so all this eBay and toy trains is just a crock really.

Cheers! ~Fil

Well obviously you did the sensible thing and left feedback for this major eBay seller, after all, you had no reason to suspect something was wrong with your payment did you? The seller had sent the goods!

RoS always return my buyer feedback pretty promptly, as they do for others. A quick look at their feedback profile, "Left for others" shows they are posting feedback for their buyers virtually every day.

Looks like it was your loss if you didn't post. I don't expect they really noticed your feedback was missing from their 15k+ rating.

Cheers! ~Fil

Seems reasonable to me. If the buyer is contemplating posting negative feedback then something has gone wrong and they should contact the seller to put things right. Hopefully then they'll be able to post positive feedback. Only then does the seller leave feedback on the

*whole transaction* including any resolution phase. If the buyer just posts negative without attempting a resolution then he's a tosser and the seller is best to wait before posting their feedback.

MBQ

But, as somone already pointed out, feedback from the seller isn't just about how quickly the buyer can hit the PayPal button. It's about the flow of the *whole transaction*.

For the buyer, the transaction is complete when they have payed for, received and are satisfied with the goods. That's when they should leave feedback.

For the seller, the transaction is complete when they know that the buyer is happy (ie the buyer leaves feedback) and isn't a total tosser who argues over every possible minor fault they can find. That's when the seller should leave feedback. Leaving feedback the moment they receive payment leaves a seller open to all sorts of abuse.

MBQ

Yes and some buyers expect preferential treatment when the do a few clicks and pay via Paypal, as if you were Amazon or something! "You want it sent straight away because you've chosen the form of payment that is most convenient to you, but the one that results in the most extra expense to me? Why thank you sir!" (I appreciate many prefer receiving Paypal payments because they can't get to their bank easily, and they don't mind giving even more money to eBay, but speaking for myself I work 50 paces from my branch...)

As I've already mentioned, there is no reason why a seller with even a smidgen of reputation is going to deliberately not return a buyer's +ve feedback. Those buyers that are refusing to leave +ve "because the seller hasn't" are biting the proverbial off to spite their mug.

"There's 10 sellers who have requested +ve before they give it to me...well, they can sing for it!"

Result? 10 sellers are down by one point each. You are down by 10. Bully for you.

Cheers everyone! ~Fil

Surely the end of the deal for the seller is when they are paid! it is different for the buyer who not only has to rely on the description (lord help us) but also what appears on a miniscule photo. I have successfully purchased piles of junk which looked good in the photo and once a totally dis-embowelled type 25 described as a good runner! Yes, the seller should not be able to coerce good fB but then neither should the buyer. Logically, neither fB should be visible until both parties have returned their remarks signifying an end to the transaction.

Peter A Montarlot

On 21/03/2006 22:46, mindesign said,

Whoops!

On 22/03/2006 17:16, peter abraham said,

So that means that if there is a problem, the seller doesn't have to do anything, because the deal ended for him when the buyer paid?

In message , peter abraham writes

No - the end of the deal for the seller is when the BUYER is happy, i.e. when the seller has taken care of any problems which may arise - which can be long after the buyer has paid. The buyer receives the goods and, if happy, leaves positive feedback. If not happy, the buyer contacts the seller to hopefully put right any problems which have arisen. When happy, the buyer leaves the appropriate feedback. The seller leaves feedback when the buyer has indicated his satisfaction by leaving feedback. It is in the interest of the seller to ensure that the buyer is happy, at the completion of the transaction.

...the words of a buyer-only if I'm not mistaken! :)

[facetious_mode_on] and there's me thinking I had to send the item...! [/facetious_mode_off]

Of course, we are talking about two angles here.

There is a difference between reluctance to leave -ve in fear of the same back, and simply not posting +ve because you don't want to go first! The latter seems akin to two people not wanting to take the first chocolate and, not being able to resolve the matter, finally giving the box to the dog to scoff! If I'm happy with the product I've bought I have nothing to fear from the sellers feedback - he's already signalled his satisfaction with my payment by sending the goods! I can tell you in the several hundreds of

+ve's I've left for sellers I've never received a -ve in return! Funny that eh?

It's when things go wrong that the feedback system leaves quite a bit to be desired. But it's still better than nothing I guess. Just. With the very few problems I've had the seller/buyer and I have been able to work things out without the use of -ve. And in most of those cases we've still exchanged +ve when everything was sorted. But then, I know I'm reasonable and honest and my descriptions accurate....it's those other blighters you should be looking out for, like the ones that sell you empty diesels!! :)

Cheers! ~Fil

Sorry to disappoint but I buy and sell and have both given and received critiscism when things have not been quite as expected. Nearly everyone with whom I have dealt has been a pleasure to do business with but like the instigator of this thread I do object to some of the implied threats contained in the ads of those sellers. Personally, if warranted I would not hesitate to leave a bad feedback but equally would give an instant refund to the unhappy buyer.In the case of p&p from the UK to me in Europe i always refer the seller to the charges listed in the UK Post Office web site. We here in France have to pay as much as 300% more to send to the UK or anywhere else in Europe since March1 this year and most of us cannot continue.

In answer to Greg. The sellers part is terminated when paid and if his goods are as advertised then there is nothing to fear but the buyer often has a long wait before the goods arrive and as I said before the quality / condition is an absolute gamble. The number of "found in my loft" or "I am not sure what this is" gives me some amusement and I treat it as a game. 75 % of my bought in gear has been super but boy oh boy have I been caught out on some occassions! These I take on the chin as I reckon to have missed the key word or hint in the photo or simply was not up with the current code words. The occational deliberate attempt to hike mailing costs I resist completely and don't give a damn at being banned by ebay if they are unsupportive. Deliberate misrepresentation will bring the same result. Should I really pay the return shipping costs when they are sometimes 3 or 4 times the item cost? Several of us in France have been treated to the "lets make up a number" for p&p, usually after the bidding is finished and often a long time after the request for cost has been made. if ,as has been suggested, return fb is automatically generated then there is no harm in punching in a positive and then writing thr truth in your 20 letters!

Peter A

Montarlot Peter A Montarlot

not disappointed, just surprised.

Do you hesitate to leave +ve when pleased with your goods? Or have you this hang-up where you will you only ever leave fB 2nd?

Ouch! And I thought shipping to the US was bad enough compared to US -> UK

No it's not he has to send the item. Sending the goods is part of the deal!!

Yes there is. For eg. If the buyer has refused insurance/tracking and the auction clearly states this is the buyers responsibility then what's the buyer going to do if it doesn't turn up and you remind him of those conditions? "Tough!" he says and leaves -ve. Well if he's that unreasonable then the bu**er can have the same back.

...sometimes. If the auction is really that uncertain or you're not familiar with the seller (or the rating flags a warning) then don't gamble! :) though your odds of 3-1 for (below) are pretty good...

and I thought I had an expensive hobby!

I hear you there. Postage costs is probably the biggest point of dispute in all of eBaydom. When browsing the listings from abroad, if I dont get a shipping quote beforehand I don't bid. If I don't know what the overseas shipping will be when selling I usually say something like "any overcharge for overseas will be refunded." and have done just that on several occasions. But as I said before I'm just an all round great guy :) (too round the wife says...)

I think peeps have to appreciate that just as most buyers are up front and honest, so are most sellers. I don't like to be tarred with the same brush as the worst, but it seems a common practice.

Cheers Peter! ~Fil

"peter abraham" wrote

No, no, no, that's not quite true. eBay sales are governed in the UK by the Sale of Goods Act, which gives the buyer significant protection, therefore the end of the deal for the seller is only when the buyer has expressed satisfaction with the sale.

John.