Multiple loop advice.....

Hi,
Thanks to all those in my "loss of power" thread. I handed my 125 into a local "old" guy and he's gonna service it for the small sum of 10
which I'm happy about.
I went out today and bought some more track....85 worth! which has extended my original loads. I've extended the orignial loop and siding in size and added a massive outside loop which is connected by points. I still only have one controller and one connection of that controller to the circuit. I can run my loco on the outside loop and I can guide it into the internal loop and siding but when I change the set of points (square box in image) it obviously cuts the power off to the internal loop. I kinda knew this would happen but now I'm unsure of how to proceed. I don't have DCC and I'm not fussed about having it right now.
My question is what do I need to have power going to the "cut off" internal loop when the points have changed? I've googled but the answers often talk about DCC so I want to make sure I have the correct answer for my needs.
I don't have to have 2 locos running at the same time but possibly in the future I would like to have one running on the internal and one on the external at the same time...
Please see my image in the link below....Oh...the red dot is my controller connection.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/128/tracke.jpg
-- The Zero ST
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If you are only using one loco, why not just connect a second pair of wires from the same controller outlet to the inner loop, (making sure that the same connection goes to each outer and inner rail to avoid short cirguiting) so that both are powered. On the other hand, a second controller connected to the inner loop would give control over each but then you would need to ensure that you don't have short circuits created when you switch a train from loop to loop.
--
Tinkerer



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On Sun, 2 May 2010 10:50:02 +0100, "Tinkerer"

Thanks. Is this what I need? "Hornby Power Link Wire Pack" from http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/Model%20Railway/power%20and%20control.htm ?
I assume it gets the feed from the live track rather than the controller itself?
-- The Zero ST
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You can do exactly that. If you are using Hornby track connectors then it is easy. The best place is from the right hand side of your sketch. Plug in a connector to each loop and then join the cables to the connectors (right to right etc). You will not have to isolate anything until you want to operate two locos -- that will take you to stage 2!
Regards
Peter
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On Sun, 2 May 2010 05:33:20 -0700 (PDT), Sailor

Could I use the one controller (non DCC) to control 2 locos on the individual loops? I know they will both do the same thing but are there any other problems?
-- The Zero ST
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Depends how much power your controller has. I can certainly do that with my Gaugemaster, it also lets me do doubleheading with the one controller. You may find that there is a reduction in top speed though.
In actual fact, you would need to either unplug one or the other set of connections or insert switching into the circuit to prevent both trains responding together.
--
Tinkerer



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My son does this frequently - bless him. Just try to have locos with similary speed/gear characteristics else you'll get one doing all the work. If its pulling then may get wheel spin, if pushing then may derail other one or wagons/coaches in between. How do you tell if its a problem - try it and watch.
One controller with two loops - put extra feeds in. Always feed on the toe side (single track) of points, does mean point blades must be clean to form contact but it isolate route not chosen. Else feed all sides of points and use double pole switch(switches both + and - at same time) with isolating connecter on one rail.
For 2 controllers and 2 loops, then want isolated section between controllers - at least length of longest engine/tender. Diagram best but roughly :-
C1 switch C2 | | _______________________ | | _____________ | | | | _______________________ | | _____________ | | | | | | | | --------------------------------- --------------------- --------------------- ---------------------------------- --------------------- --------------------- Track Controller C1 area Isolated area Controller C2 area
The isolated area receives power through the switch so gets either C1 or C2 but not both, except when you have switch set to C2 and loco bridges connection between C1 area and isolated area so dont do that :-)
Recommend extra feed every 2 metres or so to avoid voltage drop. Solder track pieces together for best contact.
Cheers, Simon
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As above - However just had exactly this situation, two loops with a link line between them and two controllers, and initially used double pole-double throw switches so each isolated section could be switched to either controller. Ran into problems with people getting confused as to what they were doing, so I re-wired with one controller for upper loop, separate controller for lower loop and the linking track (quite long as it is a gradient) fitted with the DPDT switch. To transit from one loop to the other set both controllers to same speed and operate switch whist train is on the incline, after a couple of practice runs this seems to be fine for all concerned. The isolating sections remain but these now function as simple on-off switches.
HTH
Mike
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As above - However just had exactly this situation, two loops with a link line between them and two controllers, and initially used double pole-double throw switches so each isolated section could be switched to either controller. Ran into problems with people getting confused as to what they were doing, so I re-wired with one controller for upper loop, separate controller for lower loop and the linking track (quite long as it is a gradient) fitted with the DPDT switch. To transit from one loop to the other set both controllers to same speed and operate switch whist train is on the incline, after a couple of practice runs this seems to be fine for all concerned. The isolating sections remain but these now function as simple on-off switches.
HTH
Mike
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I have taken the liberty of copying your picture, and adding to it :
http://www.binnsroad.co.uk/misc/tracke2.jpg
You will see that the three points are now labelled A, B and C. Your power feed is numbered 1, and two more have been added.
Power from 1 will go anywhere, as long as the points are set - you have already realised that setting point B to straight will cut off the power coming from power feed 1, so you cannot make a complete circuit of the inner loop. Add extra power feeds at 2 and 3, using a standard Hornby Power Clip (R602), as shown 2/3rds of the way down this page :
http://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/Model%20Railway/power%20and%20control.h tm
You could run the wires from the transformer to power clip 1, from there to power clip 2, and from there to power clip 3. However, I would prefer to run three sets of wires, all starting at the transformer, one pair to power clip 1, one pair to power clip 2 and the third pair to power clip 3.
Just make absolutely sure that the three wires from one transformer terminal feed the inside rail, and the three from the other transformer terminal feed the outside rail.
With power fed to those three positions, your loco will run around either loop, no matter how the points are set. The loco will also be able to enter the siding at C, no matter how points A and B are set.
The loco will also be able to be held in the siding, if points C are set to straight.

Good. The next stage is to add simple on/off switches to one of the pairs of wires going to power clips 1, 2 and 3, so that you can control which parts of the layout receive power, without relying on how the points are set.
Ideally, you would have two controllers, so that you can power two trains on the two loops, independently. Then, you could use one controller to power the outer loop at 1, with the second controller powering the inner loop at 2 and 3.
Things can get interesting beyond that point, when you want to run trains from one loop to the other, but it can be done. Hornby's track plan book is quite useful, with various wiring diagrams for basic train control, signals etc.
--
Graeme

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