New to N

General comment. Most UK N is poor value. The running is adequate rather than good. The price is quite high compared to OO, which reflects the lower sales volumes. UK N is getting better slowly; the newest diesel models are now decent (ie. almost as good as Japanese and US models), and some of the more recent coaching and freight items are excellent (though some have silly howlers of mistakes*, and one or two of the most recent are still dreadful). But much of the stuff on sale is still well below par.
OO represents better value for money; a number of locos run really well straight from box, detail is excellent, price better. Unless space is heavily restricted, I would suggest OO for anyone wanting to use "out of box" models.
( So having now annoyed the N gauge users, onto the specifics).
Mechanically, I think its the same parts underneath. However, the passenger version appears to be a genuine livery, whereas the freight starter is a "made up by someone" livery. The Jinty also looks a lot better in black (!), and its a fairly decent representation above the footplate of the prototype. As small steam locos go, the Jinty isn't too bad, though the gearing is too fast; lower gears would make it much more controllable.
From the photos, it looks like the passenger set includes the newer Mk1 Suburban coaches. These are excellent models; better than many others in the Farish range.
In either case, you need a better controller than the one supplied. Suggest Gaugemaster as a brand which make sensibly priced controllers. Longer term if you stick with the model trains, go for DCC (digital control).
Yes, though you may find the curves are unreasonably tight.
(* eg. the Dapol Gresley's with the bogies in the wrong places. Yes, it can be corrected without too much work, but given what they cost, and the evident effort which has gone into the body mouldings and interiors, I'd expect basic underframe measurements to be correct. )
- Nigel

Thanks Nigel, all noted.
Yes, I thought so too ! So it looks like the passenger set wins the vote :) I'll just have to economise on the beer. I had hoped that there might be someone here with hands-on experience to report of the freelance one though :(
That was going to be a question for later ! ie. is the Jinty DCC friendly ? or is it too small/tight ??
PS, been looking round your 2mm site, interesting but I think that is a little advanced for me yetawhile :)

Why don't you buy on the web if you cannot get to a model shop? In Scotland I have to buy most of my stuff on the web.
Check out
for Farish Starter Sets

Errr, yes ! I thought that that was what I was implying ! Hence my request " anyone have advice on, or have a link to a review of, those ? " !! Sorry for confusion. Knowing _what_ to buy on the web is quite a problem, given the sad state of pictures and descriptions on the average web site, ( your link is a good example of what is bad in that respect ! , but thanks for it anyways ;) )
Have you played with either of those two candidates that I am contemplating ? Will the freelance green thing self destruct after a few hours, or will it be a fair candidate for hacking/bashing/chassis-donating if I later decide to stay with Ngauge/scale ?
Maybe I'll buy it anyways (it wont break the bank) and if worst comes to worst it can carry the salt and pepper pots round the table next Xmas :-!),,, and I'd then be able to send a pizza pic to Carl Arendt !

Thought you were looking at web but waiting to go to a shop.
You have to look around. often google for pics or go to Bach Farish website.
Yes, but not these actual sets
The freelance is basically the black loco painted differently. The quality will be similar so you get the usual Bachmann Farish guarantee.
I have both types of model from Farish days. The Bach-Farish should be better.
Have fun in N Gauge

Can be done; there are no UK RTR locos in N which are too small for a DCC chip. (If stuck on size, CT Electronik make one of the smallest). Biggest problem is the Farish chassis design, which requires isolating the brush gear from the chassis block. There are kits/parts to achive this.
Depends on your approach to model making. If you like making fine items, its the way to go. The kits, jigs and parts make it surprisingly simple if you have a mental approach which suits fine work. If you want fine track work, then its massively better than N in appearance. There are people who will build track at prices which are not that much more than buying Peco N turnouts. But, if you want to run steam locos, you have to build your own mechanisms, which is quite slow.
However, if running trains from a box is your thing, 2mm is not the easiest route.
- Nigel

Yes, sry, I see the confusion now, (text was never my best language :) )
(**) Yep, done that, been there and lots of other sites too, no descriptions (other than the typical cat.no. & 1-liner much the same on all the sites, except the price)
So then I came up with a crafty plan ,,, ,, I'd ask all you knowledgable peeps here !!
BachFarish is almost (but not quite) as bad as the Peco site for lack of effort :( BF need to get their javascript linkage sorted for one thing and Peco need to make more effort at describing their products over-above simple lists :( I suppose one is being encouraged to buy their catalogue, but it doesn't inspire confidence that the cat. would be any better :( /rant !
Thanks for your description, if you still have them, and not thrown them in the bin, then that gives me hope & confidence in the new (newer?) ones as well. I do remember the less than perfect reputation of GF from days of yore, But here is another reason for asking for advice from you lot ! --, nowhere have I found any pointer to which models are _newly_tooled_BF and which are _old_GF_ :(
Do you rkn there is space in them to fit a dcc decoder ?
Thanks , I'll try ;-) Once I've sorted these pesky manufacturers and purveyors out, LOL ! and dont mind me and all my damnfool questions :) , hope I'm not boring you all !
Here is another example/question : On the Peco site and elsewhere there is a description of two types of track, one with concrete sleepers and one with wooden, SL-300 & SL-302 Ok so far,, ,, except that I can't see any mention anywhere of what sleepers the points have !` There are insulfrogs and electrofrogs and large and small and allsorts, but no mention of alternate types of sleepers. Am I thick, blind or what have I missed !?
** Oh, btw, here is an amusing one, you say google round for pics. well there is one site (which shall remain nameless to save their blushes) which shows a nice portrait of a fine loco sitting on some nice track in all its glory,,, with its back wheels already de-railed ! hahaaa !! One wonders if one has to pay extra for that 'feature' LOL !

In Great Britain, plain track can have either wood, concrete or steel sleepers; points and crossings only have wooden sleepers. (Strictly speaking, sleepers are - more or less - a standard size and use of the word "sleeper" is incorrect when talking about anything other than plain track. The correct term for the lumps of wood that hold the rails apart on points and crossings is "timbers" - which can be of variable length depending on where in the point or crossing they are going to be situated).
Hope this helps,
David Costigan

Thanks, yes it did, very much. It had been bothering me for days ! So, I'd best apologise to Mr Peco then ;-))
pssst, can you guess from this that I've not been on a railway since before Dr Beeching. Did concrete pre- or post- date him ? I dont remember them under the trains I used to ride, (*) but have of course seen them more recently from the roadside ! I didnt know there were steel ones as well !
* thinking of small branch line, steam outline, BR.,ex-LMS (or maybe ex-LNER which also figured in my youth. )

PS. This also explains why wooden sleepers are, it seems, still available second-hand, something else which had puzzled me !

Now theres the difference, PECO catalogue is full of information, not a glossy like many others.. Has good descriptions about their products as well as good drawings with dimensions. Also includes fair bit of general information about different scales etc. Well worth the money.
Simon

Thank you, looking now.
Does this apply to all Farish, or just the two we are talking about ? I have seen one, the DigiHat from know if there are others ?

Thanks for the recommendation Simon, I'll re-evaluate the piggybank then :)

I think all the Farish steam locos, and the 08, use the same basic chassis, so the problem is common to them all (they used to be all based on the same underlying parts).
The bogie diesels and multiple units vary. Some have the brush gear earthed through the chassis block, so have the same problems (possibly doubled, as both brushes need isolation). The most recent bogie diesels use more conventional motors, so problem gone away. However, the only Farish diesel mech I have running has a replacement Mashima motor in it, so the problem has long gone !
Dapol N seem to use a conventional small can motor, so just cut wires to insert the DCC chip.
Looks quite a tidy solution.
Not sure how many alternatives exist. The N gauge Yahoo group or the UK DCC Yahoo Group would know for sure.
One option is DIY; if you drill out the brush hole, then insert a plastic top-hat (lathe helps in making them) to insulate the brush, and fit a wire to the top-hat, the problem is solved.
- Nigel

I cannot be sure when the first concrete sleepers were used, but definitely pre-Beeching and may even have been used experimentally pre-Nationalisation. After World War II supplies of the normal wood - I think it was Baltic Pine - were less than abundant and it was not long thereafter that concrete sleepers became more common. Steel sleepers were used in some tropical countries, as they were more resistant to termites etc, but not often used in the UK until the serious track-relaying of quite long lenmgths of the Settle-Carlisle line over the last five or six years.
As always, hope this is useful and always ready to be corrected by somebody more in the know!
David Costigan

snips As always, most interesting, thank you :)

Thanks.
No problem, I have two :) a 6ft with 12" swing ( I think!) in gap bed and a (little smaller !) Myford, which latter will shortly be used in the construction of a NG. (16mmscale - 32mmgauge) live steam job for the garden railway.

Regarding track and sleepers all the info I have is on . . .
Look at the section on track. The rest might be handy as a refresher on UK goods practice.
The site is being worked on at the moment, it will be changing to at some point in the next month or so.
HTH
Mike

The freelance loco can be converted into a number of former Welsh tank engines, there are kits available for this but I cannot remember the maker. Its an old farish engine so not up to the standard of newer models.