Please John, can you provide more info.
I thought that Dapol were the "Rolls Royce" in terms of reliability and
quality... The model I was looking at was a Dapol 14xx 0-4-2T.. but also
like the look of their 45xx 2-6-2T but the review in the 4/05 issue of
the N-Gauge journal did comment on quality and running issues ?
Regards
Malcolm
John Turner wrote:
I know about six people who have bought Dapol locos and all have said they
will not buy more due to indifferent running qualities. Whether this is
representative or not I cannot say, but as a result of those comments I
would just ensure that I saw a loco run before buying.
John.
I wouldn't describe any current British RTR N steam locos as "Rolls Royce".
If making car comparisons, the current two main makers are nearer to Kia and
Proton (I did think Trabant and Yugo, but both those car makers have ceased
production !).
I wait to see if Peco's re-entry into the market pushes the standard up to
what it should be.
The Dapol 14xx' I've seen run fairly fast and vary in their smoothness. Not
seen one which runs well at low speed. (Except the one a friend rebuilt to
2mm standards, but that has a new chassis, 45:1 gearbox, coreless motor, new
wheels, new boiler.... All done by someone who started model making a year
ago, so beginners can do it, but it does take some dedication.).
If just after visual upgrade, its possible to remove the boiler skirt and
drill a hole in the chassis block to allow the daylight back underneath.
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Would the fact that you are in the 2mm Society colour your judgement
somewhat as to the quality of commercial N Gauge items.
They are not expected to be to "Finescale" standards.
As for the number of manufacturers it depends on whether you model UK or
Other outlines.
I didn't comment in my earlier postings about the quality of the body
mouldings, just that I'm told they don't run particularly smoothly. Now
*that* really colours *my* judgement, and effectively means that I wouldn't
touch them with a barge pole.
The main criteria I have about any model loco in any scale is that it works
well. In N-gauge that becomes even more of an issue.
John.
< vbg > That makes a change! ;-)
Sorry, I wasn't inferring that you were, but maybe I should have edited my
posting better to show that.
I was, however, trying to say (maybe badly) whether the body of a loco is of
superb quality or otherwise, is pretty much irrelevant in my book if the
thing doesn't work smoothly at all speeds. In 2005 there is little
justification for turning out any model in any scale that doesn't meet that
simple criteria.
OK, those of us with the necessary time and skill can I suppose go to the
trouble of building a new mechanism under a decent quality proprietary body,
but that surely defeats the whole concept of ready-to-run models.
John.
No problem mate, often get caught out myself. It is easy to get too brief
when posting electronically and put over a wrong impression. Do it all the
time myself.
I agree it is best to have good running and good body.
It is the drive mechanism that is the major cost so it should be good
quality otherwise we would all only buy bodyshells I guess and put our own
(Kato etc) motors into them.
The guy from the 2mm org was basically saying that all UK RTR steam loco
stock was crap.
Not an entirely fair point.
I didn't read Nigel's point quite that way. I think he was suggesting that
we have a lack of 'Rolls Royce' products in the UK model railway N-gauge
market, and in many respects I agree with him.
Certainly we've nothing on a par with the best available from Japan (Kato)
or the best on sale in the USA, but things are moving forwards thanks to
some workmanlike improvements from the Farish stable since Bachmann took
over.
I'm not sure, however, that Dapol's current production is adding anything
other than quantity to the UK N-gauge market.
John.
I use the signature so people know what I do. This seems entirely proper.
What standard of running do you regard as acceptable ?
I am quite happy to recommend people towards decent N items. Kato for
example. But unfortunately they are US or Japanese prototypes which limits
their interest to many UK modellers.
Or alternatively, some European models (European N models vary considerably
in running properties).
I have a Kato 2-4-0 tank loco in Japanese N which runs rather well straight
from the box. Its smaller than most UK prototypes. It cost around £40 in the
UK, considerably less if bought in Japan. That shows what can be done
commercially at a sensible price. OK, with a smaller UK market the price
might double, but is that unaffordable for decent running ?
The major problem with British N is the acceptance of sub-standard models.
OO used to have the same problem, but has started to change over recent
years. Many current new OO models are very good, and the need to build stuff
yourself to achieve decent running and decent appearance has gone away.
Unfortunately British N steam models haven't really moved forwards much for
decades. The best steam loco remains the Peco Jubilee of 30-odd years ago. I
wish it were otherwise. The diesels are getting better, but I said steam in
the original posting.
What standards would you like them to be ? I'd not be as critical if they
ran smoothly at sensible speeds. In 4mm scale, the only difference between
OO and EM/Scalefour for some locos are the replacement wheels underneath. N
could be the same, its a shame it is not.
I think I said that.
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Having been the originator of this thread I would like to thank everyone
that has contributed. Its made interesting reading, and for once
remained on topic ;-)
I would echo John's comments. I think that in this day and age, given
all the technical achievements, manufactures should be able to produce
reliable smooth running N gauge steam outline loco's.
I like a fair amount of detail, but would prefer a smooth starting, slow
running engine, especially in the 0-6-0 config, over the fact that the
loco has a copper chimney "just like the full size one".
I remember as a child (7 or 8 years old) having a Hornby Jinty (we
simply referred to it as puffing billy !) and this would crawl round an
oval of track fed from a very old and basic rheostat controller. That
was 30+ years ago, and haven't seen a modern loco do the same thing,
even with modern electronic controllers.
I too prefer Peco wagons, mainly as I feel that the metal wheels on
Farish stuff looks "toyish", where as the black plastic wheels on Peco
look right. Its just a shame that Peco have not gone on to produce a
decent range of coaches and continue their success with the additional
steam outline engines.
Malcolm
Correct scale: 1:160 (used by everybody except Brits and Japanese)
UK (2mm scale): 1:152 (in which 9mm represents 4'6" gauge).
UK (bastard comnmercial scale: 1:148 (who's guilty of this mess????)
Japan: can't remember, I think it's 1:120 (which would be 9mm
representing 3'6" gauge, the most common gauge in Japan IIRC).
Footnote: In the 50s and 60s, some Japanese brass HO gauge models were
imported into Canada and the USA scaled at 1:64, or S Scale. These were
3'6" narrow gauge locos, as 16.5mm gauge is very close to 3'6" in 1:64
scale. I have one of these lokies, a 2-8-0, much modified (I sprung
axles 1, 3 and 4, which almost doubled its tractive effort.) It looks OK
with HO scale rolling stock so long as you don't put it next to HO scale
locos - the cab is too large. It's the first loco I ever bought with my
own hard-earned money. It cost me 10 hours pay.
Now I'm really confused ?
>Previously "Nigel Cliffe" wrote
> The real nasty ones were the Lima Mk1's, which if anything, were
1:160 >in some directions
So Lima were producing to the correct scale, but everyone has commented
that it never looked right. Farrish and Dapol build to 1:148 which is
incorrect (even in the gauge) according to Wolf's information below ???
I suppose at the end of the day, given the mess that N gauge is in, that
Kim's point of "Isn't it what you like that matters? Not what someone
else likes" is all that matters.
Cheers
Malcolm
Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
I said "in some directions". Yes, Lima were probably trying to get the
coaches to 1:160, but by then the 1:148 scale had a fair bit of support from
the other producers of "British N", including excellent models like the
Jubilee from Peco (still nobody has done a better RTR steam loco for British
N, and the thing was designed well over 30 years ago, and been out of
production for ages).
All British RTR scales suffer this mess: OO with its 4ft3 track gauge
(whereas Continental HO is correct on the same track), which necessitates
the finescale community using 18.2/18.83mm (as your choice).
- Nigel
--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
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