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second motor in lima deltic

I have now got a layout with track only so far, and after many years, I have also got my collection of Lima deltics dusted and running, after being stored in the loft. As expected, they ran poorly, but after stripping and cleaning the motors and wheels, and adding additional pickups on the unpowered bogie. they respond quite smoothly to the Gaugemaster DC controller. The only problem, as you might expect, is the hauling power, which is ok for my needs on the level, but on the 1 in 60 gradient, they will just about pull 3 coaches, even with a bit of added weight.. (I have also cleaned and lubricated the coach wheel bearings.) I have just acquired a spare motor, and decided to have a go at putting it into a deltic to see if that will increase haulage power, and so having cut the chassis to accept the motor bogie, in it went, and I gave it a test run. It was erratic to say the least, sometimes picking up speed and then sometimes spluttering to a halt as if the wheels etc were dirty (they aren't.) I know that I have now reverted to just 2 pickups each side because of the traction tires, but even so I expected better results.

I am not sure if I have wired it correctly - the second motor has been put in the opposite way to the first, i.e. one set of traction tires to the left rail, the other set to the right, with the live wheels feeding from each track. I have connected these wheels by wire to the opposing motor, so that the circuit for each motor is still completed via the other bogie, i.e. the circuit goes - track - front bogie wheel pickup - motor brush 1 - motor brush 2 - wire to rear bogie - rear bogie wheel pickup - track. There is a similar arrangement in the other direction. This means the pickup wheels feed both their own motor and the other one as well (I am not sure if this makes any sense)

Do the panel think this is the right way to wire the beast? (I know Lima is frowned on these days but I do not have the household authorities permission to start buying new stuff in retirement!

Thank you

JD

Reply to
Zipadee Doodar
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The Lima motor bogies weren't exactly the best, but if you have two motors it ought to work better if they are wired in series instead of parallel,

That is, track to live side of one motor, other track to other side of the other motor, and the insulated side of each motor wired together.

This halves the maximum speed but it means both motors start at the same time as each other, and the unit is much more controllable because you can use more of the control knob range usefully.

It is very unlikely that the to motors will start at exactly the same time if they are wired in parallel.

Old electric locomotives and trams had series/parallel controls (forgetting about things like field weakening). They'd start in series and once they were moving switch to parallel which had a higher top speed.

If you want extra pickups, wire all the ones on each side together.

As for jerky running, is it possible that either motor bogie is shorting against the chassis? If opposite sides are live, and both touch the chassis at the same time that would cause a problem.

Caveat - I've never done this with Lima models. I have however wired double-motored Bachmann American switchers this way and it transformed them.

Reply to
Christopher A. Lee

There's a black wire on each bogie from axle wiper to brush and a long wire with a clip attached to the other brush. Snip off the clips and take each wire to the other motor and solder to the brush holder with the black wire from the axle wiper. It will run much better. Now add lots of extra weight in the middle of the loco. I've filled my BR 33 about 2/3rds full of lead and it works well. The Deltic has a longer body so about half full should do the job. Add soms black foam rubber to fill the cavity and stop the buzzing.

It sounds like you need to dismantle the motors, clean the commutators and pickups, oil the gears, probably fit new brushes and reassemble. It will run well enough so that you wonder why everyone thinks their new models are superior!

Greg.P.

Reply to
Greg Procter

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 20:56:28 GMT, "Zipadee Doodar" wrote: > The Lima motor bogies weren't exactly the best, but if you have two motors it ought to work better if they are wired in series instead of parallel, That is, track to live side of one motor, other track to other side of the other motor, and the insulated side of each motor wired together. This halves the maximum speed but it means both motors start at the same time as each other, and the unit is much more controllable because you can use more of the control knob range usefully. It is very unlikely that the to motors will start at exactly the same time if they are wired in parallel. Old electric locomotives and trams had series/parallel controls (forgetting about things like field weakening). They'd start in series and once they were moving switch to parallel which had a higher top speed. If you want extra pickups, wire all the ones on each side together. As for jerky running, is it possible that either motor bogie is shorting against the chassis? If opposite sides are live, and both touch the chassis at the same time that would cause a problem. Caveat - I've never done this with Lima models. I have however wired double-motored Bachmann American switchers this way and it transformed them. >Thank you >

I am not so convinced with the series wiring. The only sure event is that if one armature has a continuity problem then neither motor will run. There is no guarantee that both rotors will be effective either nor that the magnets are anything like equal.

It is (in my opinion) better to wire up both motors in parallel initially and apply power to the wheels with the loco inverted and get some idea of the relative starting voltage and speeds. I have tried this many times( twin power units) and have not yet had good results. All too often the result is frequent de-railing due to uneven motor performance. (We are after all , discussing old motors).

Regards

Reply to
Peter Abraham

If you want to get a smoother running Lima loco try the re motoring kits from Intercity model at

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works well in a re motored HST power car I have. Its a CD motor that drops into the motor housing.

Chris

Reply to
Chris

Sometimes on old Lima locos the traction tyres go hard and lose their effectiveness. New traction tyres might be a simpler option. My Lima 50 lost its haulage capacity, but with new tyres it can haul a lot more than

3 coaches :)
Reply to
Gerald H

Do'n't forget to check the traction tyres. Try cleaning,roughinng up or replace. regards, Steve

Reply to
Brush4

Is that a bit of GBH ?

Cheers, Simon

Reply to
simon

Where do you get traction tyres to fit these? I feel like I've looked everywhere!

Steve

Reply to
Steve Noble

a) Roco used to offer a packet of traction tires, which were fairly pliable synthetic rubber AFAICT, and should stretch to fit. May still be available.

Alternatively: b) Fill the traction tire groove with two-part quick-setting epoxy. File to contour. You may have to apply two layers. Clean the wheels throughly first, with dish soap and alcohol, to remove all traces of oil. I've done this, it works well. With the short trains hauled at the time, the slight loss on traction made no difference.

HTH

Reply to
Wolf K.

On Feb 18, 8:25 pm, Gerald H wrote: > In article , > john snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk says... > Sometimes on old Lima locos the traction tyres go hard and lose their > effectiveness. New traction tyres might be a simpler option. My Lima 50 > lost its haulage capacity, but with new tyres it can haul a lot more than > 3 coaches :) Where do you get traction tyres to fit these? I feel like I've looked everywhere! Steve

I had Gaugemaster recommended for the supply of Marklin tyres for this purpose. They were out of 13mm but the 8mm happily stretched to fit my Lima & Mainlinev brum-brums!

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Give them a try.

regards

Reply to
Peter Abraham

Copied from my earlier post...

For anyone looking for Lima traction tyres (and possibly other traction tyres) I think I have found a solution based on suggestions from this group and de.rec.modelle.bahn. The Hornby and Wrenn traction tyres seem to be too thick for the grooves in the Lima wheels, but the Märklin tyres are thinner. The Märklin tyres also seem to have been successfully used for Roco, Rivarossi and Bemo.

Unfortunately Märklin do not give out the dimensions of their tyres (which are readily available in the UK from Gaugemaster). I have, however, managed to glean the following information (TD=tyre/tire diameter, WD=wheel diameter)

7151 - TD: ?, WD: 9.6 mm? 7152 - TD: 13 mm, WD: 22.5 mm. 7153 - TD: 11.5 mm, WD: 14-16 mm. 7154 - TD: 8 mm, WD: 12 mm. 7151s are apparently rarely used and hard to get hold of.

I have just put 7154s on my Lima Class 50 and Class 73's and so far they work great, better than the Lima originals. I hope this helps, but you may want to verify this information before you buy. Use them at your own risk. I have no connection with any of the companies mentioned by the way.

Reply to
Gerald H

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